Is there a Manmade Argument for Morality?

[Robert Arvay]

There is a condition that afflicts many humans, a condition called sociopathy. Sociopaths have no conscience. It is thought by some that they are neurologically incapable of feeling any sympathy or empathy for other people. It is as if they are missing part of their brain, the part that feels and reacts with sympathy to the suffering of other people. Sociopaths feel none of that. No amount of appeal to their sense of mercy, of guilt, of compassion— nothing at all can change their ingrained sociopathy. Nothing.
This is not mentioned to be morbid, but to illustrate a fatal weakness of natural-materialism, which is that it has no moral authority. It cannot refute the implied argument made by sociopathy.
Were the sociopath to describe his philosophy, it might go something like this:

All I care about is myself. My own desires are all that matter. I seek to get what I wish to have, by any means that will accomplish my goal. The cost to anyone else is irrelevant to me. If getting what I desire costs you your life, I care nothing about that. If it costs you pain and suffering, no matter how much and for how long, what do I care? I would casually kill millions of people without a second thought, casually inflict unspeakable pain upon them, simply to achieve my goal. The only thing that matters to me is that I get what I want. The only things that restrain me are my limited abilities, especially to avoid punishment. My only calculations are those of risk and reward. As thoughtlessly as you might brush a crumb from your sleeve, so also would I slaughter a million innocents, without the slightest qualm of conscience, so long as it is of any benefit to me, however slight. Why you do not do as I do, why you allow conscience to restrain you, is a mystery to me, one which I do not care to understand, but only to exploit in you as a weakness. Your kindnesses to me are wasted, for I will take all that you have to give, and yield in return only what I must, if anything. Call me whatever insulting names you will, I care not. If you stand in my way, I will either yield to you if I must, or destroy you if I can.

This, then, is the creed of the sociopath, the creed by which lived Hitler and Stalin, by which live dictators in various parts of the world including (as of this writing) Syria and North Korea, among others. Criminologists are well familiar with sociopathy.
Question: what argument, what logic, what reason can persuade evil men to cease their evil, and to work for the benefit and betterment of mankind? They will respond only to bribes, and to the credible threat of punishment. If we appeal to their conscience, if we read to them from holy scripture, if we lecture them on their moral bankruptcy or their empty souls, we cannot dissuade them from their cold calculations. Sociopaths are utterly disinterested in such things.
As I heard one such person say, if I save the entire world from destruction, but die in the process, it is worthless to me.
Clearly, then, there is no manmade argument for morality.
-

[AshvinP]

There is a condition that afflicts many humans, a condition called sociopathy. Sociopaths have no conscience. It is thought by some that they are neurologically incapable of feeling any sympathy or empathy for other people. It is as if they are missing part of their brain, the part that feels and reacts with sympathy to the suffering of other people. Sociopaths feel none of that. No amount of appeal to their sense of mercy, of guilt, of compassion— nothing at all can change their ingrained sociopathy. Nothing.
This is not mentioned to be morbid, but to illustrate a fatal weakness of natural-materialism, which is that it has no moral authority. It cannot refute the implied argument made by sociopathy.
Were the sociopath to describe his philosophy, it might go something like this:

All I care about is myself. My own desires are all that matter. I seek to get what I wish to have, by any means that will accomplish my goal. The cost to anyone else is irrelevant to me. If getting what I desire costs you your life, I care nothing about that. If it costs you pain and suffering, no matter how much and for how long, what do I care? I would casually kill millions of people without a second thought, casually inflict unspeakable pain upon them, simply to achieve my goal. The only thing that matters to me is that I get what I want. The only things that restrain me are my limited abilities, especially to avoid punishment. My only calculations are those of risk and reward. As thoughtlessly as you might brush a crumb from your sleeve, so also would I slaughter a million innocents, without the slightest qualm of conscience, so long as it is of any benefit to me, however slight. Why you do not do as I do, why you allow conscience to restrain you, is a mystery to me, one which I do not care to understand, but only to exploit in you as a weakness. Your kindnesses to me are wasted, for I will take all that you have to give, and yield in return only what I must, if anything. Call me whatever insulting names you will, I care not. If you stand in my way, I will either yield to you if I must, or destroy you if I can.

This, then, is the creed of the sociopath, the creed by which lived Hitler and Stalin, by which live dictators in various parts of the world including (as of this writing) Syria and North Korea, among others. Criminologists are well familiar with sociopathy.
Question: what argument, what logic, what reason can persuade evil men to cease their evil, and to work for the benefit and betterment of mankind? They will respond only to bribes, and to the credible threat of punishment. If we appeal to their conscience, if we read to them from holy scripture, if we lecture them on their moral bankruptcy or their empty souls, we cannot dissuade them from their cold calculations. Sociopaths are utterly disinterested in such things.
As I heard one such person say, if I save the entire world from destruction, but die in the process, it is worthless to me.
Clearly, then, there is no manmade argument for morality.
-

On questions like these is where paths like depth psychology and spiritual science shine the brightest. It is really about Self-knowledge first and last. One thing we will find when pursuing such a path is that standard DSM mechanistic "personality disorder" classifications are of no use. They are counter-productive, because they lead us to think there is something built in to "sociopaths" which most people lack. It is much more accurate to say that "sociopaths" turn outwardly what most people hide inwardly as their "shadow" (Jung) or "counter-image" (Steiner). Likewise, the shadow of a sociopath is their compassionate, nurturing, empathizing tendencies, which often come out when they are behind bars in prison for many years... we just never see or hear about it - out of sight, out of mind.

Of course, this has been the basic observation of all ancient long-lasting spiritual traditions. However, such an observation could not be systematized in rigorous empirical form until the late 19th century. It is no coincidence that these inner realities of the human soul opened themselves up to systematic inquiry across multiple empirical lines of investigation at the same time. That follows from the metamorphic progression of the Spirit. Now, I do not think it would be unfair to say the most pressing difference between the character of human beings going forward will be the extent to which they take seriously the maxim to "Know thyself". Those who don't fall into decadence while those who do are increasingly the wheat separated from the chaff.

We should not imagine any of us are in the "wheat" column yet - in fact, it's likely more accurate to say we are all still dwelling very much amongst the chaff.

[Robert Arvay]

Likewise, the shadow of a sociopath is their compassionate, nurturing, empathizing tendencies, which often come out when they are behind bars in prison for many years...

While I disagree with this statement, it does not address the question nor the answer.

The point is this: Physicalists have no response to the sociopathic credo. If there is no divine source to moral rules, then the sociopath's credo is unassailable. He has no reason to depart from it.
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[AshvinP]

Likewise, the shadow of a sociopath is their compassionate, nurturing, empathizing tendencies, which often come out when they are behind bars in prison for many years...

While I disagree with this statement, it does not address the question nor the answer.

The point is this: Physicalists have no response to the sociopathic credo. If there is no divine source to moral rules, then the sociopath's credo is unassailable. He has no reason to depart from it.
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Physicalists have no response to any question of importance - I think everyone agrees on that. My point is that we should not think our "religious" answers are any better if they do not conform to empirical Reality - and that empirical reality, especially through modern psychology, show that we all have the capacity for displaying that type of sociopathic behavior under the right conditions. These things are very well documented in the 20th century. No amount of intellectual appeal to "objective moral values" to which we must submit will change that Reality within us. It is only through Self-knowledge that we learn to take increasing measures of control over our collective Shadow and find the desire to do only what is beneficial to our true Self, which is not other than the true Self of anyone else.

[Soul_of_Shu]

I was once well on the road to prison, driven by a sociopathic fear and loathing born of horrific childhood trauma deeply buried in the shadowland of the psyche, in utter disregard that such unresolved and projected suffering could only beget more of the same. Raised in an entirely non-religious way, there was no church-derived moral compass on offer. Only now in retrospect is the Jesus story understood as the parable of a Bodhisattva, as one who forsakes the transcorpreal kingdom, and incarnates for the sole purpose of teaching self-inquiry, insight, sanative shadow-work and compassion, so as to overcome the suffering prone state of the self under the spell of being segregated from That which it is in essence. So what turned it around? To this day, I can't really say for sure, except that I suspect there was some Daimon at work, albeit one had to be ripe for its attention/intention/intervention. As for how many incarnations and how much suffering did it take to become ripe, your guess is as good as mine. Now the dream is to transfigure one's ideation, and one day act as a Bodhisattva ... and then who knows, perhaps even a Daimon too.

[Robert Arvay]

Soul wrote

So what turned it around?

While your story is compelling, my response must be the same as it was to Ashvin.

Physicalists have no response to the sociopathic credo. If there is no divine source to moral rules, then the sociopath's credo is unassailable. He has no reason to depart from it.

Ashvin's point is also well taken, that

Physicalists have no response to any question of importance

I respectfully disagree that the answer to sociopathy is to be found within us.
Yes, we are all capable of evil. The Bible tells us that, quite emphatically.
But it also tells us that we cannot save ourselves, since our every inclination is toward evil, from birth onward.

No human effort can devise a moral code that refutes the sociopathic code.
If you can devise one, I would like to see it.

Only God can reveal that code to us. It is then up to each individual to ask divine
assistance in following it, however imperfectly. It is a lifelong project.

[AshvinP]

Soul wrote

So what turned it around?

While your story is compelling, my response must be the same as it was to Ashvin.

Physicalists have no response to the sociopathic credo. If there is no divine source to moral rules, then the sociopath's credo is unassailable. He has no reason to depart from it.

Ashvin's point is also well taken, that

Physicalists have no response to any question of importance

I respectfully disagree that the answer to sociopathy is to be found within us.
Yes, we are all capable of evil. The Bible tells us that, quite emphatically.
But it also tells us that we cannot save ourselves, since our every inclination is toward evil, from birth onward.

No human effort can devise a moral code that refutes the sociopathic code.
If you can devise one, I would like to see it.

Only God can reveal that code to us. It is then up to each individual to ask divine
assistance in following it, however imperfectly. It is a lifelong project.

Well you have certainly come to the right place at the right time!

I have personally written at least 5 relatively long essays on that very topic in the last one month. Not only that topic, but very relevant to it. I recommend starting with "Res Ipsa Loquitur" (Kant essay). He said, "I had to get rid of knowledge to make room for faith." Then I would recommend checking out "On the Nihilism of Belief". I can post links when back at home. It is not about "devising a code" but realizing deeply our true Integrated and Unified nature as Dana said.

I genuinely believe the Cartesian and Kantian divides are responsible for your position on "moral codes", NOT the scripture. It tells us that knowing the Truth will set us free, and that is the exactly pointing to Self-knowledge as the only path to spiritual freedom, from which our moral imagination naturally unfolds. For that last point I recommend looking at Metamorphoses of the Spirit: Incarnating the Christ and Transfiguring our Thinking (Part 2). Also Cleric's "Beyond Flat MAL" essay.

[Soul_of_Shu]

"Nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” ~ The Gospel of Luke

“If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.” ~ The Gospel of Thomas

[Robert Arvay]

Well, one last attempt, and then I shall move on.
The question is, can humans construct a valid moral code?
My answer is no, we cannot, for we lack both the wisdom and the inclination.
We depend on divine revelation.
For example, many manmade codes accept certain sexual perversions,
while rejecting such things as ownership of property. (These are easy examples to find.)
No human code can show the sociopath why we should reject perversion,
or accept private ownership of property.
No human code can debunk the sociopathic code, or persuade the sociopath that he should be altruistic.
Without God, the sociopathic code is flawless.
Moral law either has divine authority, or no authority at all.
Peace.
.

[AshvinP]

Well, one last attempt, and then I shall move on.
The question is, can humans construct a valid moral code?
My answer is no, we cannot, for we lack both the wisdom and the inclination.
We depend on divine revelation.
For example, many manmade codes accept certain sexual perversions,
while rejecting such things as ownership of property. (These are easy examples to find.)
No human code can show the sociopath why we should reject perversion,
or accept private ownership of property.
No human code can debunk the sociopathic code, or persuade the sociopath that he should be altruistic.
Without God, the sociopathic code is flawless.
Moral law either has divine authority, or no authority at all.
Peace.
.

Like I said before, this topic was addressed in my essays on Metamorphoses of the Spirit. Your conclusion above only holds true if humans are static spiritual beings who do not evolve. I hope my essays show pretty conclusively that we do, in fact, evolve spiritually. The fact that no "moral code" in the past has been sufficient to quell humanity's fragmenting and therefore destructive tendencies does not rule out all future attempts. I am sure you can see the logical fallacy in any assertion to the contrary. The major distinction I draw here is that we cannot really call what we need to develop a "moral code", because it cannot be involuntarily imposed on us. No person who is merely obeying external dictates can be said to behave "morally", even if we live our entire lives without harming a hair on another person's head. At best we are being obedient children for longer than most others. What we must seek is to grow past our spiritual adolescence into spiritual adulthood. And, as Dana and I have pointed out in several different ways, this only comes through Self-knowledge, as scripture also lays out pretty clearly.

Peace be unto you as well.