AshvinP wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 12:21 pm
It seemed like you were saying there is some tension between Cleric's post/question and my answer.
No, I wasn't (but upon posting I suspected it could be read in that way by you, which is why I edited my post, probably too late for you to notice).
AshvinP wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 12:21 pm
I'm also confused as to what else the perceptions of distant stars could be if not symbols of our crystallized physical consciousness. Would our physical consciousness simply end at the upper boundary of the atmosphere and then we would be perceiving through something else altogether?
Exactly, but I wanted to make sure I was getting it right, since Cleric spoke of "physical states of the Earth".
Now reading Cleric's formulation very carefully, I found it confusing:
For example, when we look at a distant star, does this mean that it also goes through a mineral phase? Or it could be going through a more spiritual state (like for example our old Sun state) but from our perspective we resonate with what that more spiritual state could physically collapse into, even though no spiritual beings there experience the mineralized state?
Is it not ascertained that spiritual beings never experience mineralized states anyway? Even less "there"? They understand them, possibly ideate them, create them etc, but they never experience the mineral star in the sense that we normally intend with the verb "experience". It’s only mineral in our (or should I say mine) collapsed Earthly perspective… It seems to me that, in the specific environment of this sub-discussion, "does it mean that the star also goes through a mineral phase" means nothing.... that a star goes or does not go through a phase seems void of meaning to me since it doesn't exist as an object, and we can only say that it may go through this or that state in such generic terms if we conceive it as an object...
I don't think that is necessarily the case. We are spiritual beings experiencing a mineralized phase, and all other spiritual beings go through their respective 'human' stages (when self-consciousness lights up) but only Earthly humans awaken to self-consciousness within the mineralized phase of this Solar evolution. The distant stars are perhaps the arenas of 'previous' Solar evolutions and, who knows, perhaps those spiritual beings went through a mineral phase during their 'human' stage as well, and we perceive those stages as distant stars.
So you are saying that we need to resort to 'previous' solar evolutions we never discussed here, or read about in Steiner or elsewhere (as far as I know), in order to find what Cleric said not confusing? Do you really think Cleric was implying something of that kind - previous solar systems where spiritual beings might hypothetically have had mineral existence - when he shared that publicly here in the context of this thread?
I doubt that. I rather believe I am not getting what is intended there in a much less extravagant way.
"On Earth the soul has a past, in the Cosmos it has a future. The seer must unite past and future into a true perception of the now." Dennis Klocek
Federica wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 1:14 pm
So you are saying that we need to resort to 'previous' solar evolutions we never discussed here, or read about in Steiner or elsewhere (as far as I know), in order to find what Cleric said not confusing? Do you really think Cleric was implying something of that kind - previous solar systems where spiritual beings might hypothetically have had mineral existence - when he shared that publicly here in the context of this thread?
I doubt that. I rather believe I am not getting what is intended there in a much less extravagant way.
Well, I don't know, maybe he can clarify. If we had read about these details in Steiner, I doubt it would be a question. Steiner has spoken briefly of previous Solar evolutions prior to ours. For ex:
So when we thus transfer ourselves completely into the beginning of the Saturn evolution, we have in the spiritual beings then in manifestation, the memory of a previous planetary chain and its happenings.
And it stands to reason that some of the distant stellar firmament we perceive would be 'echoes' of these prior evolutions projecting into our spatial consciousness. We know that the Earthly mineral phase is uniquely experienced by current humanity in our Solar evolution, so I'm not sure why that would be a question either.
"They only can acquire the sacred power of self-intuition, who within themselves can interpret and understand the symbol... those only, who feel in their own spirits the same instinct, which impels the chrysalis of the horned fly to leave room in the involucrum for antennae yet to come."
Federica wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 1:14 pm
So you are saying that we need to resort to 'previous' solar evolutions we never discussed here, or read about in Steiner or elsewhere (as far as I know), in order to find what Cleric said not confusing? Do you really think Cleric was implying something of that kind - previous solar systems where spiritual beings might hypothetically have had mineral existence - when he shared that publicly here in the context of this thread?
I doubt that. I rather believe I am not getting what is intended there in a much less extravagant way.
Well, I don't know, maybe he can clarify. If we had read about these details in Steiner, I doubt it would be a question. Steiner has spoken briefly of previous Solar evolutions prior to ours. For ex:
So when we thus transfer ourselves completely into the beginning of the Saturn evolution, we have in the spiritual beings then in manifestation, the memory of a previous planetary chain and its happenings.
And it stands to reason that some of the distant stellar firmament we perceive would be 'echoes' of these prior evolutions projecting into our spatial consciousness. We know that the Earthly mineral phase is uniquely experienced by current humanity in our Solar evolution, so I'm not sure why that would be a question either.
It seems to me that your entire soul attitude during this sub-discussion has been so focussed on dispelling any potential interpretational risks of any potential tension between what you and Cleric say, that you have temporarily lost something necessary and your remarks have been running down into improbable side cracks. Never mind, this whole theme was an insight shared by Cleric that is probably too occult for me to properly grasp at this point, and I don't need to try harder for now.
"On Earth the soul has a past, in the Cosmos it has a future. The seer must unite past and future into a true perception of the now." Dennis Klocek
Cleric K wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 7:30 pm
(btw, Ashvin, do you remember from where you took the RS quote where he says that in the higher worlds we perceive other possible streams of Time? We commented on that in QM context.)
Were you referring to this post, Cleric? If so, the quote link is in the post.
"They only can acquire the sacred power of self-intuition, who within themselves can interpret and understand the symbol... those only, who feel in their own spirits the same instinct, which impels the chrysalis of the horned fly to leave room in the involucrum for antennae yet to come."
