BK interviewed by Richard Smoley

[Soul_of_Shu]

Haven't watched this yet, but given Richard Smoley's background, this surely has the potential to be a cut above the usual Q&A that BK gets involved in during some interviews, and on a channel with 109k subscribers ...

[Soul_of_Shu]

Alas, having now given this chat a chance, it doesn't really live up to that hoped-for potential, and remains confined to the usual nutshell Q&A we've come to expect in these interviews. Nonetheless, some may still be interested, if relatively new to BK's ideas.

[Ben Iscatus]

As always, BK is wonderful to listen to, but none of the questions were original.

[Soul_of_Shu]

As always, BK is wonderful to listen to, but none of the questions were original.

Yes, if nothing else, BK is now so practised and concise in his delivery, he could do it in his sleep.

[Ben Iscatus]

Yes, if nothing else, BK is now so practised and concise in his delivery, he could do it in his sleep.

Ah, but not in deep sleep, as these fine words show:

"The elusive background of deep sleep, my true home, is the eternal now at rest, prior to the excitations we call thought. It is what I truly am, the ground of "I" before the stirrings of life....Yet precisely because there is no death in the transcendence of deep sleep, there is no life in it either. For life is death's co-defined obverse; without the one, there cannot be the other. The cognitive big bang of wakefulness is not only the root of my life but also the veil that hides the infinite from me. My restless stirring just prior to awakening is the initial cracking of the infinite cosmic egg from which the finitude of my waking life eventually hatches. It seems that my soul craves for finitude as much as it later longs for a return to the eternal."

[Lou Gold]

Yes, if nothing else, BK is now so practised and concise in his delivery, he could do it in his sleep.

Ah, but not in deep sleep, as these fine words show:

"The elusive background of deep sleep, my true home, is the eternal now at rest, prior to the excitations we call thought. It is what I truly am, the ground of "I" before the stirrings of life....Yet precisely because there is no death in the transcendence of deep sleep, there is no life in it either. For life is death's co-defined obverse; without the one, there cannot be the other. The cognitive big bang of wakefulness is not only the root of my life but also the veil that hides the infinite from me. My restless stirring just prior to awakening is the initial cracking of the infinite cosmic egg from which the finitude of my waking life eventually hatches. It seems that my soul craves for finitude as much as it later longs for a return to the eternal."

What a lovely quote! Thanks, Ben.

I recall that Ramana described his consciousness as being wide awake in deep dreamless sleep.

[Ben Iscatus]

I recall that Ramana described his consciousness as being wide awake in deep dreamless sleep.

Yes, there is a tendency in the East to deliberately contradict yourself in one statement in order to undermine ordinary logic and point to what is buried or beyond.

I was interested to note that in a recent interview (not this one), BK said he's turning away from the East and more towards the Western tradition. Thus for instance to embrace suffering rather than try to escape it, and to pray rather than to meditate (after Sheldrake perhaps).

[Lou Gold]

I recall that Ramana described his consciousness as being wide awake in deep dreamless sleep.

Yes, there is a tendency in the East to deliberately contradict yourself in one statement in order to undermine ordinary logic and point to what is buried or beyond.

I was interested to note that in a recent interview (not this one), BK said he's turning away from the East and more towards the Western tradition. Thus for instance to embrace suffering rather than try to escape it, and to pray rather than to meditate (after Sheldrake perhaps).

But the East has its versions of engagement or escape, as does the West. It surely does not lack compassionate involvement with this world, which is why Martin Luther King nominated the great Buddhist activist "peace monk" for a Nobel Prize. Here are the words of the great poem of Thich Nhat Hanh:

Please Call Me by My True Names

Don’t say that I will depart tomorrow —
even today I am still arriving.

Look deeply: every second I am arriving
to be a bud on a Spring branch,
to be a tiny bird, with still-fragile wings,
learning to sing in my new nest,
to be a caterpillar in the heart of a flower,
to be a jewel hiding itself in a stone.

I still arrive, in order to laugh and to cry,
to fear and to hope.

The rhythm of my heart is the birth and death
of all that is alive.

I am the mayfly metamorphosing
on the surface of the river.
And I am the bird
that swoops down to swallow the mayfly.

I am the frog swimming happily
in the clear water of a pond.
And I am the grass-snake
that silently feeds itself on the frog.

I am the child in Uganda, all skin and bones,
my legs as thin as bamboo sticks.
And I am the arms merchant,
selling deadly weapons to Uganda.

I am the twelve-year-old girl,
refugee on a small boat,
who throws herself into the ocean
after being raped by a sea pirate.
And I am the pirate,
my heart not yet capable
of seeing and loving.

I am a member of the politburo,
with plenty of power in my hands.
And I am the man who has to pay
his “debt of blood” to my people
dying slowly in a forced-labor camp.

My joy is like Spring, so warm
it makes flowers bloom all over the Earth.
My pain is like a river of tears,
so vast it fills the four oceans.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can hear all my cries and my laughter at once,
so I can see that my joy and pain are one.

Please call me by my true names,
so I can wake up,
and so the door of my heart
can be left open,
the door of compassion.

[Lou Gold]

I was interested to note that in a recent interview (not this one), BK said he's turning away from the East and more towards the Western tradition. Thus for instance to embrace suffering rather than try to escape it, and to pray rather than to meditate (after Sheldrake perhaps).

For me, it brings to mind what Jesus has to say in #50 of the gnostic Gospel of Thomas:

(50) Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where did you come from?', say to them, 'We came
from the light, the place where the light came into being on its own accord and
established itself and became manifest through their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it
you?', say, 'We are its children, we are the elect of the living father.' If they ask you,
'What is the sign of your father in you?', say to them, 'It is movement and repose.'"

In this sense, it might be suggested that Gandhi leading his march and Ramana resting on his couch are both signs of the living father. The power I find in the Jesus story is that he does not get caught in some either/or choice but passionately performs both/and.