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Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 6:15 pm
by AshvinP
Directly Perceiving ‘Other Minds’

"The self is only a threshold, a door, a becoming between two multiplicities." - Gilles Deleuze

Related to the habit we discussed in Part III of ‘explaining’ our experience with theoretical thoughts that point somewhere else, there is the ubiquitous modern habit of assuming we cannot directly perceive ‘other minds’. We only feel we need to rely on the former habit because we have assumed the latter to be the case without question. When conditioned by sensory experience of clearly bounded objects separated from one another in space, we come to feel that each soul has a circumscribed ‘field of experience’ (including sensations, thoughts, impulses, feelings, etc.) contained somewhere within the bounds of their skin, cut off from prying eyes and minds. The reasons we maintain this sensory-conditioned assumption reside in deeper curvatures of our soul life, which we will touch on later. With this assumption dangling our intellect like a marionette, we then start weaving theories about how we only know another soul’s first-person inner states by inferring them from sensory impressions (such as speech and gestures), analogizing to them based on our own first-person states, or simply speculating into the void and living with the illusion of ‘other minds’ for practical reasons (solipsism).

A good way to loosen the slack on this constraining assumption, to begin with, is to reveal the flawed logic of various objections to the idea that we know ‘other minds’ directly through observation and cognitive discrimination of perceptions, just as we can objectively know various aspects of our spatial-sensory environment in the same way. We don’t need to infer from or analogize to anything when we notice that a flame is burning us before we attain knowledge of that painful experience. Yet somehow we have convinced ourselves in modern times we must make such inferences and analogies when we feel empathy, when we ‘vibrate in resonance’ with another soul’s pain or grief, at the sight of their expressions. It seems ‘self-evident’ that I cannot know another perspective’s pain when I see them on fire like I know my own pain when I am burned. Thus it is supposed that there must exist some sort of experiential boundary between perspectives and then the philosophers and scientists get to work theorizing ‘explanations’ for this assumed boundary and why it can or cannot be overcome.

Many conundrums arise when we remain rigidly attached to such a conviction. Since it forces our thinking to imagine it is relying on speculative inferences, we begin to feel dreadfully uncertain about many things we would have intuitively known a few centuries ago. For example, how do we know that our inferences are correct, and that we are not simply interacting with a very cleverly designed robot, a ‘nonplayer character’ (NPC), that only seems to be experiencing inner states of pain, grief, joy, etc.? How many ‘p-zombies’ are actually out there trying to pass themselves off as humans while we remain none the wiser? These are the kinds of questions modern thinkers occupy themselves with, since everyone feels like we can only observe and know the mere outer surfaces of people and events in a direct way, while knowledge of inner states is ‘up for grabs’ depending on what we desire or prefer to be true. Indeed, modern humans have proven all too liable to make erroneous inferences from mere outer expressions (i.e. behavioralist thinking) when they feel like there is no other alternative.


People who talk superficially of the soul and do not know anything about it will say: 'A plant has a soul just as human beings have a soul.' I always have only one thing to say to such people: 'I know a small device; you put some fat bacon into it, having browned it a little first — a mousetrap. And when a mouse nibbles on the bacon the trap will close of its own accord. Someone who concludes from such things as the Venus's fly-trap that there has to be a soul in there would also have to say that the mousetrap has a soul, for it closes of its own accord.' It always is a matter of how we take the background of anything.

You see… we always consider the background. Others who do think there is a soul but know nothing of the soul will say a plant also has a soul if it acts in a similar way to a mousetrap when an insect comes close… it is not outer appearances that lead to conclusions but true insight into the soul element.
(1)


The now famous biologist Michael Levin makes a similar erroneous inference in this experiment when concluding that his hybrid sorting algorithms are exhibiting ‘delayed gratification’ (sacrifice). After all, the behaviorist tendency of jumping to the conclusion, ‘if it quacks like a duck, it is a duck’, is only relied upon so much in scientific inquiry because it is assumed the ‘actual inner states’ are imperceptible and cut off from direct knowledge. Therefore, speculative inferences are the best we can do to approximate the inner experience. Such issues have significant consequences for how we think through experience and, ultimately, for how we relate to and treat our environment and other souls. The moral consequences of how we understand our ability to perceive the inner states of other souls run deep and wide. These issues all stem from the unexamined assumption that we exist as a private bubble of experience interacting with other private bubbles through some outer mechanism or another, exchanging ‘packets of information’ through some sort of spatial medium.

Instead, we can imagine that we always have direct perception of inner temporal states which feel to belong to other first-person perspectives, only there are various inner constraints on our psycho-physical organization that make this perception more or less fragmented, more or less lucid, more or less precise (which is also the case for spatial perception). These inner constraints on our perception are the very same ones we began exploring in the previous parts, and as we saw, they are flexible and capable of being loosened as we grow more intimately conscious of their existence and their influences on our spiritual activity. When we orient properly to this reality of direct inner perception, we don’t need to postulate any mechanisms or mediums through which information packets travel between souls, but can instead recognize how the inner states of many first-person perspectives are superimposed on one another. Let’s look at a few of the common objections to the direct perception of inner states.

One seemingly obvious objection is that we don’t “see” inner states like we do sensory impressions and therefore the former can only be inferred from sensory impressions. In the previous essays, we have already discussed the reasons why such an objection rests on an erroneous understanding of what it means “to see”. To see is precisely to perceive and discriminate perceptions such that we harmonize their unfolding into a musical whole, attaining a meaningful orientation to their lawful significance within our present state. We looked at how a person who undergoes a sight-restoring operation will initially only experience a chaotic flux of color impressions until they learn to properly discriminate and organize the experiences. It is no different than a person who undergoes a traumatic event and experiences a chaotic flux of emotions and thoughts. In both cases, we only attain sight when the impressions are harmonically related and their functions in our experience shine forth.

There is no experiential reason to artificially divide our perceptions into one bucket of colors, sounds, smells, etc., and into another bucket of emotions, thoughts, impulses, etc., and then claim that, in relation to other souls, we directly perceive the impressions from the first bucket (like the frowning or smiling facial countenance) but only infer impressions from the second bucket (like the inner state of sadness or joy). Yet that is exactly what modern empiricists and rationalists have been claiming for the last few centuries. Those who tried to move beyond empiricism and rationalism, like the ‘critical philosophers’, did not fare any better in overcoming this division. They simply imported it into their philosophical framework without question and then declared the inner states to be inaccessible ‘things-themselves’. Such an arbitrary division initially smuggles into our thinking what we seek to conclude, i.e. that we cannot directly perceive and know the inner states of other minds like we directly perceive and know spatially extended objects.

Another objection is that, when we interact with other souls, we don’t know how they are experiencing their own sensations, thoughts, feelings, and impulses. In other words, we only “live through” our own states and not the states of other minds. This observation is merely pointing to the fact that we don’t have complete perception of inner states at any given time. This fact is just as true for our own inner states as it is for others. Most of the time I am not sensitive to the blood coursing through my body, however if I receive a frightening scare and my heart starts racing, and I can discriminate this experience (through thinking) from other sensory experiences, I then know the existence of inner states that were previously unknown. The same principle applies to emotional and ideal states that either I or another soul are experiencing. Just because I do not happen to be consciously perceiving such states at the moment, it does not follow that they cannot be perceived under the right circumstances.


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To better appreciate the flaw in this objection, we can imagine two people who are viewing the same tree from different angles. Under the logic of the objection, we imagine that there are inflexible ‘light cones’ into which their vision has been channeled and they can only continue perceiving those aspects of the tree which fit into their respective cones. Of course, in this illustration it is easy to discern the error in reasoning - there is no rigid light cone fixing a perspective’s vision in place. If one perspective were to get up and move, he or she could perceive practically the same aspects of the tree as the other (albeit from a unique spatiotemporal perspective). Now we simply need to translate that to our spiritual experience of thoughts, feelings, and impulses. The only thing preventing perspectives from directly perceiving the spiritual experiences of others is the failure to ‘get up and move’, i.e. to take an active and loving interest in the ideas, goals, feelings, and impulses which animate these other perspectives.

Another important consideration here is that ‘living through’ an experience does not equate to perceiving and knowing that experience. After all, the question is precisely whether we can perceive and know the inner states of other perspectives, not simply whether we can live through them in the exact same way. An animal which lives through the waves of pain, joy, hunger, etc. cannot be said to have knowledge of those inner states, rather it reactively moves from state to state like a fish in water. We only have knowledge of inner states, whether they feel to belong to our perspective or another perspective, when such experiences are actively attended to and discriminated. We can attend to and discriminate the experiences of grief and pain in another perspective just as we can do with our own experiences of those states, and without such attendance and discrimination, we will remain oblivious to the functions of the inner states in both cases.

In both cases, the knowledge of the inner states will only be dim and incomplete, but that is due to our psycho-physical organization and our cognitive skills, not due to some inherent ‘mental cone’ that partitions relative perspectives of the Whole into separate domains. To imagine the latter is the equivalent of imagining that the mental states of algebraic relations exist in some partitioned realm before I have learned algebra, or that the Eiffel Tower exists in an alternate dimension before I go to Paris and visit it. It would be convenient for young students if that were true, since they could then blame their math illiteracy on the structure of reality rather than their lack of inner effort, but what is convenient does not equal what is true. It is similarly convenient if we can avoid understanding or loving our neighbors because reality says “no dice”, but the fact is that there is much more room for expanding both by allowing our perspective to more directly coincide with theirs.


Orienting to the Superposition of Inner States

A major intellectual obstacle to this reality is that we habitually imagine these as-of-yet unexperienced ‘inner states’ of other perspectives as self-contained objects existing in some ‘other world’, on the ‘other side’ of our first-person present state. We need to resist that habit and rather stick with the given facts of our inner experience. To use a simple metaphor, if we imagine our mental state transforms from “1”, “2”, “4”, to “5”, does this mean that the state of “3” doesn't exist until it is experienced or exists in some world orthogonal to our numerical thinking? We can see that the relation between 2 and 4 is such that they can only be what they are if there is 3 in between. When I discover 3, nothing really changes for 1,2,4, or 5 - they are only complemented, the intuition of my present state becomes more complete. Even if 3 was never discovered, the relation between the above numbers would be as if 3 exists. Thus, the state of 3 exists as if superimposed on our first-person states of 1, 2, 4, and 5, and only needs to be brought into focus through inner effort.

When we translate that to our living experience of other perspectives, it means the inner states of those perspectives are implicit in our own and can be brought into greater focus through inner effort. When we truthfully survey our memory life, we cannot deny that our entire sense of ‘me’ has been shaped through the spiritual activity of others - parents, teachers, peers, leading thinkers, and so on. Likewise, the ideas, language, institutions, technologies, and so on that shape our lives would not exist without the spiritual activity of collective humanity. Our physical environment, bodily organs and parts, etc. would not exist but for the aeons of activity proceeding through the natural kingdoms and the planetary spheres. All of these transpersonal influences on the ‘architecture’ of our present state are also confirmed by the empirical findings of natural science and psychology. That is the sense in which the inner states of other souls (human or otherwise) are always superimposed on our own.

To his credit, the aforementioned Michael Levin has also done some pioneering work in discovering the ‘multiplicities’ of goal-directed agents concealed within the seeming unity of the individual human soul, i.e. the molecular, cellular, and organic systems that all contribute to the architecture of our self- experience. He has also intuited, based on the stimulation of his empirical research, that this human self-experience could take part in a ‘multiplicity’ that comprises higher-order agents, which, from their perspective, could be experienced as higher-order unities of selfhood. These multiplicities should not be imagined as atomic units existing ‘side by side’ and combining with each other, but rather as the ‘interference pattern’ that emerges from overlapping streams of spiritual activity. The self-experience of agents could be imagined as ‘nodes’ that arise within this interconnected and holistic constellation, as the ancients imagined with the symbol of Indra’s Net.


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https://thoughtforms.life/are-we-too-pa ... d-we-know/
Around 2016, a major effort took place too find a mate for a rare snail. Scientists studying left-right asymmetry named, & tried to find a mate for, Jeremy. Imagine how far these issues were above anything Jeremy could comprehend. He was the star of an immense, inscrutable, alien drama giving meaning to his life that he could not begin to understand. The results of this research, involving Jeremy’s love life, anatomy, and genetics, will be part of the scientific record in perpetuity, and could lead to very important advances that affect many human patients. Jeremy lived and died having no inkling about the broader patterns and concepts involved.

Those of us who like to outpaint ideas - extending concepts to see where they lead - inevitably asked: could this mean that we too, are part of an even larger collective? Not everyone asks this; some people are tied to a specific level as privileged, and while they can agree that we are made of parts, they can’t imagine what is like to be those parts or how we could possibly be such a part ourselves. Kind of like in the brilliant Flatland, when the Sphere, a 3-dimensional being, never tires of amazing the 2-dimensional Square with the tales of a greater world, but balks when Square hypothesizes that the Sphere could himself be a low-dimensional projection of an even higher-dimensional object. Preposterous, Sphere says.

Just because we are not fully conscious of these superimposed inner states does not mean they cease to exist and shape our conscious experience. Indeed, as we become more sensitive to what is influencing that experience, we may discover that, when in public, our mental pictures are often modulating our behavior and speech based on how we feel to be perceived from another individual or group’s perspective. Similarly, we can ask ourselves how often is it that we are the best judge of our own flaws, limitations, and weaknesses, or our own virtues and positive qualities? We often only come to recognize those negative and positive qualities in the light of Truth when we seek out the perspective of others, when we bring our perspective into greater 'resonance' with such perspectives and heed the meaningful feedback that they offer. That is why the pursuit of spiritual sight and self-knowledge is not other than the pursuit of World-knowledge, i.e. the knowledge of the superimposed perspectives that are implicitly shaping our own.

Once we have created more slack in this assumptive constraint on our spiritual activity, there will be much less troublesome overgrowth on the path to attaining spiritual sight. That is because what we aim to attain sight of is precisely a more expansive sphere of the inner states of ‘other minds’, not because we are curious to peep into their momentary thoughts and perceptions, but because these inner states are always implicit in the meaning of our present state, shaping and constraining that meaning. Thus we desire insight into how to transform our present state through these lawful constraints toward the common Good (which is the unconscious desire of all human striving in science, philosophy, art, etc.). We can only truly know how our thoughts, speech, and actions influence other souls, and vice versa, when we are able to resonate with their inner states more lucidly. Once we become more sensitive to this reality, we realize that so far we have been like a person who is asked whether they speak Spanish and then goes off on a monologue, in Spanish, about how they don’t speak the language.

The fact that we directly perceive ‘other minds’ is implicit in practically everything we think, feel, and do, and it is only our modern intellectual convictions, born of shadowy soul habits, which obscure this reality from our present state of perception and thought. We can imagine living for a day in a state where we only understand the meaning of the speech, expressions, or gestures of the people around us after we ‘infer’ these inner states from sensory perceptions. We will quickly realize how erroneous this idea of private inferential bubbles must be if we deeply live into the experience of such an imagination. Even if we deny our ability to directly perceive another perspective’s thoughts, and thereby maintain the inference, analogy, or solipsistic theories, we can do that only when we are not interacting with this other perspective. When we are, expressing such a theory becomes a blatant performative contradiction. We are then making use of our direct perception of inner states in order to deny that we are doing so.


The Desire to Maintain a ‘Private’ Thinking Space

The temptation to maintain the inference, analogical, or solipsistic frameworks despite their obvious logical flaws can be traced to deeper soul constraints. Particularly, it can be traced to the desire for modern humans to carve out an island of ‘private experience’ for themselves and rule over this imaginary kingdom at all costs. It was necessary for humanity to develop this feeling for a private inner space because only then could we begin directing our thoughts in freedom. As long as our mental pictures feel like they belong to the wider World flow and are steered along its powerful currents, we cannot attain a sense of being actively involved in the production and organization of those pictures we call ‘thoughts’. Yet the prospect for attaining spiritual sight depends entirely on us recognizing how the current extent of our creative responsibility for thoughts within the World flow is akin to an infant who has only learned how to walk a few steps at a time before falling over. We can manipulate a few thought-fragments within the deeper currents here and there, but those currents continue to transform and drag our inner states in complex ways, of which we are initially helpless to control.

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In that sense, the desire for a private thinking space certainly serves us well in ordinary life circumstances at our infant stage of cognitive development, when we have hardly developed any fine control over our chaotic thought-sprays (recall the water hose metaphor). We can imagine the experience of living in a society where these thought-sprays were immediately expressed outwardly as soon as they were conceived, like a pandemic of Tourette’s syndrome had broken loose. In that scenario, everyone would be drenched in the most bitter, hateful, insulting, and degrading commentary from others. Ordinary life would start to resemble the worst parts of our social media platforms (where such comments are often sprayed due to the relative anonymity afforded). Instead of that, we utilize our ‘pre-speaking’ space to evaluate our thoughts and mental pictures, to simulate how the speech would influence the course of events if voiced out loud, and then decide whether to voice them or not. That gives us a ‘sneak preview’ of how quickly we would trip over ourselves if we attempted to walk with our thoughts (of course, this pre-speaking and pre-acting space also works in the other direction, hence the existence of premeditated crimes).

This infant-level luxury becomes a huge obstacle when we are pursuing spiritual development, however. It acts as a crutch that our imaginative being can continuously lean on and thereby avoid taking finer control of its thought-sprays. As long as we feel like we can indefinitely evaluate our spraying thoughts in privacy, there is little incentive to work on channeling the sprays into an artistically recursive and morally saturated stream. Attaining spiritual sight is synonymous with taking more creative responsibility for our thought-sprays and becoming more improvisational in our thinking, i.e. gradually closing the gap between our real-time spiritual activity, the resulting mental pictures, and their outer expression. We should start to feel like anything we think and feel is immediately worn on our outer physiognomy such that the whole World can see. (2) Only in this way do we feel motivated to learn how to craft and wield our sprays more wisely. We are not forced to do so but we are made painfully aware of what can result if we choose not to, like we are diagnosed with a cancerous tumor and are informed of how it will grow and wreak havoc on our organs if we do nothing.

It’s easy to see why so many souls would resist transforming this desire for a private thinking space and would rather keep the relative anonymity of their thought-sprays for as long as possible. What better way to justify maintaining this space than to philosophically postulate that such spaces are inherent aspects of reality and each soul space is inaccessible to other souls (at least until death)? So we see all of these inner soul constraints - these assumptions, desires, habits, expectations, etc. - are interrelated and feed off of each other in various ways. The more we desire to rule over the private thinking space, the more attached we become to our intellectual convictions that justify this space, the more we identify with those convictions, and the more we feel they need to be defended like we would defend our physical body from harm. Defending such convictions against sound logic then becomes a habit like getting up and drinking coffee in the morning and we can hardly imagine how our life could unfold without it. Yet unlike the coffee habit, relying on a private thinking space is fundamentally an illusion.

Just because we desire our inner states to be private and feel them to be private, doesn’t make it so. We only feel that way because we can no longer trace the effects of our inner states like we can trace the effects of most physical actions in the sensory spectrum. Imagine that you throw a stone and it falls on your head. You make the connection that throwing a stone such that it returns to your head causes pain. Now imagine that you throw it so hard that it makes a full orbit around the Earth. By the time it returns from behind, you have already forgotten that you threw the stone. Then it hits you and you shout, "Hey, who did that?!" You see some people nearby and assume it was them. You throw a stone at them, but you throw it too hard again and it makes a full orbit and then hits someone else. Soon everyone all over the Earth is throwing stones and is being hit by stones, but they remain clueless as to why and start speculating about external ‘laws’ that are producing and catapulting the stones. We can no longer make the connection between how the stones we have thrown have come back around to hit us or other people.

That is analogous to the modern condition where spiritual activity, the resulting inner states, and their effects in the sensory spectrum have grown extremely out-of-phase. As we discussed in the previous essay, we can only restore sensitivity to this connection by starting our investigation from where the activity and its perceptible effects are fully in-phase, precisely in the seemingly ‘private’ thinking space where we experience our inner gestures producing mental pictures and the inner voice. All other sensory and psychic perceptions meet our activity as something foreign, which is why our meaningful concepts seem so orthogonal to them, but in the experience of our mental pictures, perceptions and concepts coincide. For example, when we think about the transformation of a plant, our thoughts which relate together the various perceptions feel like they arrive from within us, from the ‘opposite direction’ of the plant perceptions. When we think with our inner voice, on the other hand, the thoughts and the audial perceptions feel united and to be coming from the same inner direction.

What we do to stimulate the mental pictures is initially unclear, i.e. we don’t perceive the inner process of drawing memory images of what we had for breakfast, for example, in the way we can see a book being taken off the library shelf. All we initially know is that we instinctively will our invisible imaginative gestures through a mysterious domain of memory intuition and that leads to the ‘condensation’ of memory images that feel like they dimly reflect the intuition. It is that insensitivity to the inner process which makes us feel isolated in our private thinking space, weaving in ‘personal’ memories or thoughts that we simply try to ‘correspond’ with and ‘explain’ historical events or external perceptions. Nevertheless, we can gradually develop a more concrete orientation to this inner process through our concentrated efforts and, by doing so, we begin to sense the transpersonal life that we have always been leading in the deeper strata of our soul being.

To help avoid the habit of seeking this inner process in the same way we seek other encompassed perceptions, it is important to get a feel for how elusive it is. We know how it feels to simulate speech and actions in our mental pictures, to rehearse the words we want to speak with our inner voice or the physical movements in our imagination before deciding whether to speak or act them out. But what should we do if we want to ‘rehearse’ the inner voice itself, i.e. to think before we think? In that case, we may try to cheat by thinking in a soft whispering inner voice and, after we approve our words, to repeat them in our mind with a louder voice. The problem, however, remains exactly the same, we have only shifted it a little – our softer inner voice still manifests as something that we hear for the first time at the moment of thinking. These words are only the final testimonies of a deeper inner process which, however, unfolds imperceptibly across the ‘event horizon’ of our simulation space. Let’s try to further orient to this inner process with a metaphor to cymatics.



We discussed in Part II how our ancestors experienced a state of ‘original participation’, i.e. a state where the soul’s inner states were felt to overlap with a wider spectrum of inner states involving the souls of their tribes and ancestors, which in turn felt to overlap with the inner states of Divine beings. The cymatics image above can help us symbolically orient to how our mental states can once again be felt as shaped and structured by relatively autonomous spiritual activity working invisibly from ‘behind’ our perspective, i.e. not contained within the explicit content of our mental states. The sound in the cymatics demonstration is still explicit mental content, so that is why it’s only a metaphor for the purely inner experience. We should try to sense the invisible movements which precede the audible sound, which are the same invisible movements by which we perceive and discriminate the perceptions in the video (try to feel the recursiveness here). The thoughts we experience when contemplating the demonstration are harmonically structured by those invisible movements and their varying ‘pitches’ much like the sand patterns that we perceive, as ‘standing waves’ reflecting the meaning we are experiencing.

Another way to approach this participatory state is to consider the tingling sensation we experience when a limb ‘goes to sleep’, the so-called pins and needles. This sensation does not feel like it pops into existence from a void, or floats around our body randomly, but rather it feels loosely structured and localized within the bodily matrix. Our thoughts can be experienced similarly as such ‘tingling’ sensations, loosely structured and localized within an ideal matrix, except these sensations are imbued with more intuitive clarity that those sensations, indeed with even more clarity than our inner voice. When our limb goes to sleep, it dawns on us that we don’t have such complete control over it as we have become accustomed to feeling in ordinary life. We can’t simply will the pins and needles away. It is a similar realization for our tingling thoughts that feel to have a life of their own. We can only begin to gain control over these thoughts once the intellect is disabused of its default feeling of being a sovereign ruler over its private thought-island.


Renouncing the Soul Constraints

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The soul constraints we have been exploring can be compared to a balloon that has been inflated through a hole, as pictured above. What inflates this balloon are the habits, desires, expectations, and tendencies we have been discussing so far. The partition symbolizes the threshold distinction between the clearly encompassed contents of our imaginative perspective, the side on which the balloon is being inflated, and the invisible intuitive curvatures ‘behind our perspective’ through which those contents flow (to begin with, those very same soul habits and tendencies). As the balloon grows bigger and bigger, i.e. our intellectual speculations and models grow toward ‘theories of everything’ and our pride in that theoretical ‘knowledge’ inflates, it becomes more and more difficult to invert our perspective through the ‘pinhole of cognition’ and restore conscious sensitivity to the invisible gestures that inflate the balloon. We have thus inflated the balloon on the wrong side of the threshold, so to speak.

It’s not that the intellectual models themselves act as a fundamental blockage, but rather our soul life grows more attached to their support and starts to cling to them like a person who feels like he is drowning clings to a buoyant life preserver (even if the ‘drowning’ is only a realistic simulation). In other words, we can no longer imagine what intellectual life, which often coincides with life in general, would be like without the supporting models. In that sense, pride and fear are intimately related as one stimulates the other and vice versa. The more we take pride in the already encompassed contents of our perspective, the more we also fear from letting them fade out of focus and turning attention toward the invisible realms where humbling mystery reigns supreme. And the more we let such currents of fear stream through our souls without consciousness, the more we feel impelled to turn back toward inflating our current imaginative perspective and encompassing more contents.


“How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”
(3)

We should sense how, the longer and more intensely we cling to such supports, the more difficult it is to sacrifice them, just as it is in the case of an unhealthy diet, a drug addiction, and so on. Often we tell ourselves we will give these things up ‘starting tomorrow’, but tomorrow never comes. As discussed in the previous essays, we need a deeper scale of activity than our intellectual combinatorial gestures to make what we continually dream of doing tomorrow into what we are consciously doing today. That deeper activity is at the heart of the art of renunciation. We renounce our default focus on the objects of perception, i.e. our desire to encompass everything as clearly outlined perceptions that we can enjoy, understand and manipulate in some way, and our habit of searching for clear-cut ‘explanations’ for everything we experience by contorting mental pictures into various configurations. It is precisely when we renounce such habits and the desire or expectation to "see" in the ordinary way, that we begin to see in the higher cognitive sense.

Here, again, is a fundamental law of sacred magic. One could formulate it in the following way: That which is above being as that which is below, renunciation below sets in motion forces of accomplishment above and the renunciation of that which is above sets in motion forces of accomplishment below. What is the practical meaning of this law?

It is the following. When you resist a temptation or renounce something desired below, you set in motion by this very fact forces of realisation of that which corresponds above to that which you come to renounce below. It is this that the Master designates by the word "reward" when he says, for example, that it is necessary to guard against practising righteousness before other people in order to gain their regard, "for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven" (Matthew vi, 1). Reward is therefore the action that one sets in motion above by the renunciation of desire for things below. It is the "yes" from above corresponding to the "no" from below.
(4)


What does it mean to renounce our soul constraints, in practice? We can no longer wander into the desert and simply deprive ourselves of sensuous pleasures and worldly pursuits. Renunciation has become a completely free act for the modern soul, which means it should be done with full consciousness of how our sacrifices are planting the seeds of the spiritual sight which will help us both locate and attain our freely adopted ideals. That is why renunciation is now the art and science of transforming thinking such that it can livingly probe the inner constraints, as we have already begun to do through our concentrated work so far. This recursive and concentrated thinking is the portal through which all deeper scales of activity will be reached to renounce the soul constraints. Before our thinking can be transformed, however, it should rightly perceive its relationship to the invisible curvatures of meaning in which it weaves.

The great masters in painting would lay down the main brushstrokes and then let their apprentices fill in the details. Likewise, our intellectual scale activity, to begin with, paints its mental pictures on the canvas and with the brushes provided by mysterious higher-order scales of activity. We are normally like apprentices who have no awareness of the canvas on which we are painting, the master strokes that have already been laid down, and simply throw up paint splotches according to our momentary whims, desires, and preferences. To renounce these careless splotches, we need to develop a concrete sense of the context in which we are painting the intuitive meaning we steer through via our thoughts. That way we can see how our splotches either throw off or complement the already present harmony of colors on the canvas and feel motivated to align our brushstrokes with that harmony in a more consonant way. That sensitivity for the intuitive canvas can only be attained in the spirit of humility.

In the modern age, the default feeling is like our knowledge about the flow of sensory life is a water tank that is 99% full, with only a few more thoughts needed to refine that knowledge and get a complete understanding of practically everything that can be known before death. Of course, most people would never say that out loud, but that is an experience we can have once we view our soul constitution more objectively. We normally feel like we know why we go through various psychological or physical experiences on a daily basis, like why we do the work that we do, why we perform a certain routine, why we interact with certain people, and so on. Moreover, we don’t even stop to question how we accomplish such things through our spiritual activity, let alone suspect that the ‘how’ and the ‘why’ might coincide. Renouncing the soul constraints is the process of inverting this situation such that we file like our knowledge tank is only .01% full (in the experience of our immanent thought-flow), and that the daily flow of experience is mostly a riddle that needs to be intuitively and imaginatively worked out.

To get a feel for that inversion, we can imagine our life moving in reverse, such that all of our current knowledge, skills, relationships, and so on are ‘hollowed out’. Everything we learned through our career experience, through university, and through various life circumstances should evaporate. Even our ability to think, speak, and walk should disappear from our intuitive orientation to existence. Now we can imagine our present state stands in relation to a higher self in the same way as our hollowed out state stands in relation to our present state. It is a similar relation between the state of our dream self to the state of our waking self who has gained a much more lucid orientation to why the dreamscape was shaped the way it was and unfolded the way it did. If we can concretely feel that our present sense of ‘who I am’, ‘what I know’, ‘what I can do’, etc. is only a hollowed out shell of our future potential state, like an apple that has been cored, then we have a firm foundation for inverting through the pinhole of cognition toward spiritual sight.


A man who doesn't thank with his mind, a man who doesn't thank with his heart, a man who doesn't thank with his soul, he can not be in connection with the Universe - there can be no renewal and thought can not grow. With gratitude in the mind, with gratitude in the heart, with gratitude in the soul begins mental development, soul and heart development, or spiritual development.
(5)


Most importantly for renouncing the soul constraints, we should cultivate the feeling of gratitude for our daily sensory and psychic experiences, as if they are delectable gifts that have precipitated through the depth of our spiritual activity and we are experiencing them for the first time. Permeating our soul with this feeling of gratitude and encountering our daily experiences with awe and wonder will naturally lead to new kinds of inner movements, new kinds of questions and insights about the inner constraints that are shaping those questions. We will need such soul forces of gratitude, prayer, and devotion to the outer world at our backs, so to speak, as we pursue spiritual sight. The current symbolic path we are traversing, and even more so the intensified meditative approach that we will soon explore, will be fraught with inner obstacles that instill panic, fear, anxiety, restlessness, loneliness, and so forth along the way. There should be no illusions about that and we should be prepared to do ‘battle’ with such obstacles.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world’s darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Therefore take up the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you will be able to stand your ground, and having done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness arrayed, and with your feet fitted with the readiness of the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Pray in the Spirit at all times, with every kind of prayer and petition. To this end, stay alert with all perseverance in your prayers for all the saints.
(6)


Unlike sensory seeing, where the objects we seek to perceive and know don’t seem to care whether or how we see or know them, spiritual seeing and knowledge is met with living forces of the soul that have a stake in whether or not they are perceived. The very preferences we seek to objectively perceive prefer not to be seen, the desires desire not to be known, the opinions opine that they need not be investigated, the habits habitually avoid becoming conscious, and so on. These inner obstacles can manifest in many subtle and sneaky ways, so we may not even realize how we are sabotaging our own progress. The only reliable way to navigate this inner minefield of the soul is through dispassionate (and symbolic) logical reasoning, on the one hand, and the moods of gratitude and prayer, on the other. We should be grateful for our new, fully conscious opportunities for conducting our spiritual activity and prayer for guidance on realizing the full potential of those opportunities. In the next part, we will explore the opportunity of concentrated meditation as a means of reaching deeper scales of inner activity.

CITATIONS:

(1) Rudolf Steiner, GA 349, XI

(2) Matthew 5:27-28
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”

(3) Isaiah 14:12-14

(4) Valentin Tomberg, Meditations on the Tarot

(5) Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov

(6) Ephesians 6:12-18

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:44 pm
by Federica
Thanks, Ashvin, for reminding us of such a crucial point in this essay - that thoughts pay a toll - to paraphrase Steiners words. More than only reminding, you are articulating a realization that should be clear for anyone who recognizes the conscious nature of reality in monistic understanding.

In your elaboration, I appreciate the great capacity to express this ideal in multiple logical connections, when for example you highlight the relation between our standard understanding of another human being as just another physical body, and the belief that soul life is correspondingly self-contained in space. As usual, you express these logical connections very effectively, so that they can be instantly perceived as more accessible. Closing the gap in thinking must equally mean accessing a shared soul space. This is brilliantly conveyed.

I also appreciate the “they didn’t know it was impossible so they did it” mindset. You highlight the potential, daring to give the tasks of the sixth PA epoch a status of present possibilities, like feeling someone elses pain as our own, and like pneumatology, in Steiners sense.

Yet somehow we have convinced ourselves in modern times we must make such inferences and analogies when we feel empathy, when we ‘vibrate in resonance’ with another soul’s pain or grief, at the sight of their expressions. It seems ‘self-evident’ that I cannot know another perspective’s pain when I see them on fire like I know my own pain when I am burned.

Even in this fifth PA epoch, sensitive people can surely experience instantaneous empathy, and feel intensely for someone who is in pain. And I think there is good reason to 'push' this ideal, to present it as attainable today, by its logical evidence, to the extent that some flawed mind habits are gotten rid of. This is a beneficial and necessary wake up call: we should “get up and move” with loving interest toward others, and let our sym-pathy (brotherhood) guide us, beyond the egoistic, self-soothing, solipsistic tendencies.

At the same time, I think this is a very thin line to work with. There's a real risk to cross over, going from 'it’s not impossible to know other souls directly and feel for them, feel with them' to a 'fake it until you make it' self-decreed direct mastery over the soul configuration of others. My concern is that, to some extent, you are free styling along this line too boldly.

Yes, we aren’t solipsistic bubbles of consciousness, but we are also not just one shadowy set of mind habits away from direct knowledge of other souls. When you say: “Instead, we can imagine that we always have direct perception of inner temporal states which feel to belong to other first-person perspectives, only there are various inner constraints on our psycho-physical organization that make this perception more or less fragmented, more or less lucid, more or less precise”, aren't you inviting readers to bite more than they can chew? The capacity you want to encourage surely belongs to Initiation. But in the context of this essay series, you are clearly addressing readers who are discovering the path to self-knowledge. In this sense, the rest of the exercises and realizations you present the readers with in these essays seem incommensurate with this one advanced skill of the future, which you are here encouraging the reader to, well, …fake by default: “we can imagine that we always have direct perception of inner temporal states which feel to belong to other first-person perspectives”.

The point is, until one has worked through one’s own soul configuration sufficiently, the psycho-physical organization is substantially in the way of properly imagining that direct perception of other souls is at hand, even after the logical objections you discuss are understood. This point is also related to my recent comment about your critical philosophy discussion. It was about your endeavor to eviscerate the philosopher's hidden thoughts and feelings, so as to present him with he report of your findings, as regards to his intimate soul space workings, and your related prescriptions. I am seeing the risk of that attitude becoming mixed up with the higher ideal of empathy with other souls. This has been reinforced by what you more recently wrote, along those same lines of grabbing hold of other souls in direct knowledge:

these kind of philosophical thoughts will stop being so enigmatic when we focus more on the underlying thought-movements, the common habits, expectations, assumptions, and so on that shape and steer the thoughts. Some people make it more difficult than others to sense these underlying movements because they draw concepts from many different places and combine them in unique ways.

And so, to clarify what seems to me like a risk of mixing up things, I want to ask you: How do you objectively and reliably separate the disciplined cultivation of the high ideal: “I can know the other soul directly and empathize with it and its suffering” from the soul tendency to seek mastery over the underlying soul movements of others - especially those who “make it difficult to sense their underlying movements” - so as to be able to grasp the enigma of the other soul, grab hold of those hidden movements 'from above', and impart: “you think so because …, and you feel so because …, thus you should ...”?

***

Now moving on, away from the effects of the psychic organization on the possibility to know other souls directly, I believe there is an additional element to mitigate the concretization of the direct knowledge ideal in the here and now. This is the uniqueness of each individual perspective. You say:

The only thing preventing perspectives from directly perceiving the spiritual experiences of others is the failure to ‘get up and move’, i.e. to take an active and loving interest in the ideas, goals, feelings, and impulses which animate these other perspectives.
The fact that we directly perceive ‘other minds’ is implicit in practically everything we think, feel, and do, and it is only our modern intellectual convictions, born of shadowy soul habits, which obscure this reality from our present state of perception and thought.

As said, I agree that we have to get up and move with active and loving interest, and that we have to unmask the comfortable habit of cultivating a fully private soul sphere. But we should also keep in mind that the uniqueness of each perspective, in which the inner states in question are embedded, is not implicit in our own, and will not come into focus through inner effort. Only some intersection can be elucidated/experienced.

Correspondingly, you seem to downplay the uniqueness of the individual perspective: “When we truthfully survey our memory life, we cannot deny that our entire sense of ‘me’ has been shaped through the spiritual activity of others - parents, teachers, peers, leading thinkers, and so on”. I have to disagree that other human beings have been the filter through which our entire sense of ‘me’ has been shaped, though I definitely agree they have a preponderant role (I would be interested in Clerics comment on this point).

***

In conclusion, I appreciate that you boldly challenge the common, largely unscrutinized, mind habits of feeling cozy and safe in one’s own private thought-bubble. We tend to condone very easily our thoughts that infringe the Tenth Commandment, as you suggest, even in inner contradiction with philosophical and religious convictions. This needs to be brought to attention, and hardly anyone is doing it. So, on the one hand, I am glad you are doing it:

Attaining spiritual sight is synonymous with taking more creative responsibility for our thought-sprays and becoming more improvisational in our thinking, i.e. gradually closing the gap between our real-time spiritual activity, the resulting mental pictures, and their outer expression. We should start to feel like anything we think and feel is immediately worn on our outer physiognomy such that the whole World can see. (2) Only in this way do we feel motivated to learn how to craft and wield our sprays more wisely.

On the other hand though, I am concerned that, in the context in which you are doing it, the call is incommensurate with the context - as detailed above. Moreover, how can the threat of shame (wearing our thoughts and feelings such that the whole World can see them) be an authentic motivator? I believe the motivation to mind our thoughts and feelings, rather than only our acts, needs to come from a positive understanding, as epitomized in, for example: “Not I but Christ in me”. I believe that shortcuts such as imagining we already have direct knowledge, wouldn't be heard, let alone work. Conversely, when one slowly begins to raise spiritual sight to an ideal such as 'Christ in me', that’s when the desire to cultivate the private thinking and feeling space, slowly and organically, begins to weaken.

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:06 pm
by AshvinP
Federica wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 2:44 pm Thanks, Ashvin, for reminding us of such a crucial point in this essay - that thoughts pay a toll - to paraphrase Steiners words. More than only reminding, you are articulating a realization that should be clear for anyone who recognizes the conscious nature of reality in monistic understanding.

In your elaboration, I appreciate the great capacity to express this ideal in multiple logical connections, when for example you highlight the relation between our standard understanding of another human being as just another physical body, and the belief that soul life is correspondingly self-contained in space. As usual, you express these logical connections very effectively, so that they can be instantly perceived as more accessible. Closing the gap in thinking must equally mean accessing a shared soul space. This is brilliantly conveyed.

I also appreciate the “they didn’t know it was impossible so they did it” mindset. You highlight the potential, daring to give the tasks of the sixth PA epoch a status of present possibilities, like feeling someone elses pain as our own, and like pneumatology, in Steiners sense.

Yet somehow we have convinced ourselves in modern times we must make such inferences and analogies when we feel empathy, when we ‘vibrate in resonance’ with another soul’s pain or grief, at the sight of their expressions. It seems ‘self-evident’ that I cannot know another perspective’s pain when I see them on fire like I know my own pain when I am burned.

Even in this fifth PA epoch, sensitive people can surely experience instantaneous empathy, and feel intensely for someone who is in pain. And I think there is good reason to 'push' this ideal, to present it as attainable today, by its logical evidence, to the extent that some flawed mind habits are gotten rid of. This is a beneficial and necessary wake up call: we should “get up and move” with loving interest toward others, and let our sym-pathy (brotherhood) guide us, beyond the egoistic, self-soothing, solipsistic tendencies.

At the same time, I think this is a very thin line to work with. There's a real risk to cross over, going from 'it’s not impossible to know other souls directly and feel for them, feel with them' to a 'fake it until you make it' self-decreed direct mastery over the soul configuration of others. My concern is that, to some extent, you are free styling along this line too boldly.

Yes, we aren’t solipsistic bubbles of consciousness, but we are also not just one shadowy set of mind habits away from direct knowledge of other souls. When you say: “Instead, we can imagine that we always have direct perception of inner temporal states which feel to belong to other first-person perspectives, only there are various inner constraints on our psycho-physical organization that make this perception more or less fragmented, more or less lucid, more or less precise”, aren't you inviting readers to bite more than they can chew? The capacity you want to encourage surely belongs to Initiation. But in the context of this essay series, you are clearly addressing readers who are discovering the path to self-knowledge. In this sense, the rest of the exercises and realizations you present the readers with in these essays seem incommensurate with this one advanced skill of the future, which you are here encouraging the reader to, well, …fake by default: “we can imagine that we always have direct perception of inner temporal states which feel to belong to other first-person perspectives”.

The point is, until one has worked through one’s own soul configuration sufficiently, the psycho-physical organization is substantially in the way of properly imagining that direct perception of other souls is at hand, even after the logical objections you discuss are understood. This point is also related to my recent comment about your critical philosophy discussion. It was about your endeavor to eviscerate the philosopher's hidden thoughts and feelings, so as to present him with he report of your findings, as regards to his intimate soul space workings, and your related prescriptions. I am seeing the risk of that attitude becoming mixed up with the higher ideal of empathy with other souls. This has been reinforced by what you more recently wrote, along those same lines of grabbing hold of other souls in direct knowledge:

these kind of philosophical thoughts will stop being so enigmatic when we focus more on the underlying thought-movements, the common habits, expectations, assumptions, and so on that shape and steer the thoughts. Some people make it more difficult than others to sense these underlying movements because they draw concepts from many different places and combine them in unique ways.

And so, to clarify what seems to me like a risk of mixing up things, I want to ask you: How do you objectively and reliably separate the disciplined cultivation of the high ideal: “I can know the other soul directly and empathize with it and its suffering” from the soul tendency to seek mastery over the underlying soul movements of others - especially those who “make it difficult to sense their underlying movements” - so as to be able to grasp the enigma of the other soul, grab hold of those hidden movements 'from above', and impart: “you think so because …, and you feel so because …, thus you should ...”?

Thanks Federica, for both the positive and critical feedback. As a preliminary remark, I don't want to focus much on hypothetical readers and how they may interact with the essay's ideas. The fact is that neither of us can know the kind of readers they will draw, now or in the future, or how those readers will interact with them, and it would thus remain very speculative. Therefore I think it is more productive to focus only on how you are interacting with the ideas.

In the context of an ongoing series of essays, which is consistently illustrating how we only approach the higher realities through ongoing effort, symbolic thinking, strengthened soul forces, and corresponding deeper scales of inner activity, do you feel that you are being led into certain ideas and overlaps too hurriedly, before you have a chance to 'work through your own soul configuration sufficiently'? Is there something about the overlaps that are being illustrated which you find dissonant in your own experience?

I think orienting to the overlap between ordinary philosophical, scientific, and everyday thinking, and higher realities, has been a consistent theme of many essays/posts by both Cleric and myself over the last year. For example, when Luke asked Cleric about Intuitive cognition, he responded:

Asking the question like this could be misleading. It makes it seem as if the stages of consciousness are like separate floors. Once we master Imagination we climb to Inspiration and so on. But in reality there's always something of all stages at any given time. In our ordinary consciousness there's also Intuition - this is the very awareness that we exist, the we will our way through a stream of becoming. In that sense everyone is already at the Intuition stage. The difference is that normally this intuition is too 'perforated'. Our inner life is like a pendulum that once in a while only for a moment passes through its point of balance.

It is true that just as our ordinary cognition rests on the support of the senses and brain-bound thinking and imagination, so our higher being first begins to gain consciousness in the the Imaginative soul flow, then in the Inspirative ideal flow, until it can know itself in pure Intuition.

One way to metaphorically understand these things is by picturing that while the pendulum of our inner life swings wildly, every time it passes through the balance point, a tiny 'stroboscopic' flash of Intuition is experienced as the meaning of a thought. When we begin to grasp the forces that swing the pendulum, it can be guided to move in more rhythmic ways and then then the flashes of Intuition elucidate more of our soul life (Imagination). In other words, our awareness always has at its core Intuition. It is what gives the meaning to every other stage of cognition. The question is how 'chopped up' this intuition is. For this reason, there's very little sense to compare with one another and wonder who is at what stage. The important thing is that the stroboscopic flashes of Intuition that we experience, gradually begin to feel as entangled in sacred meaningful flow. Then we begin to understand the kind of spiritual activity that organizes this higher flow and even we can do something there.

This is really key. As long as we imagine that we have to move to another completely separate floor of consciousness in order to know the higher strata of reality, we project in our mind an image, which like the carrot in front of the donkey, always remains out of reach. Instead, we have to realize that we are already within Intuition, it's only that normally we experience only stroboscopic flashes.

Here we should beware of a danger however - when we say that we are already within Intuition, we shouldn't imagine that we already contain it within the sphere of our consciousness, even if in a sparse way. This has been at the core of endless discussions with Eugene. We have to resist the temptation to feel ourselves as the top-container of all reality and imagine that Intuition only gradually elucidates the contents that have been until now dimmed down. Instead, we should always feel great humility and know that the higher (non-'perforated') Intuition, can't fit in our present geometry of consciousness. Our conscious form has to be continually sacrificed in order to be resurrected in new forms.

I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) you wouldn't feel this is an example of 'faking it until you make it'. So what specifically in my essay differentiates the above from what I have been pointing to from various angles? I need more specific examples to get a sense of where you are drawing the line between usefully exploring the overlap between our ordinary consciousness and the higher transpersonal experiences through various illustrations, metaphors, etc., and too boldly straying into 'fake it until you make it' territory. This post from Cleric about exercising the virtues is another example we could use - does that fall into unproductive 'faking it' territory?

Federica wrote:***

Now moving on, away from the effects of the psychic organization on the possibility to know other souls directly, I believe there is an additional element to mitigate the concretization of the direct knowledge ideal in the here and now. This is the uniqueness of each individual perspective. You say:

The only thing preventing perspectives from directly perceiving the spiritual experiences of others is the failure to ‘get up and move’, i.e. to take an active and loving interest in the ideas, goals, feelings, and impulses which animate these other perspectives.
The fact that we directly perceive ‘other minds’ is implicit in practically everything we think, feel, and do, and it is only our modern intellectual convictions, born of shadowy soul habits, which obscure this reality from our present state of perception and thought.

As said, I agree that we have to get up and move with active and loving interest, and that we have to unmask the comfortable habit of cultivating a fully private soul sphere. But we should also keep in mind that the uniqueness of each perspective, in which the inner states in question are embedded, is not implicit in our own, and will not come into focus through inner effort. Only some intersection can be elucidated/experienced.

Correspondingly, you seem to downplay the uniqueness of the individual perspective: “When we truthfully survey our memory life, we cannot deny that our entire sense of ‘me’ has been shaped through the spiritual activity of others - parents, teachers, peers, leading thinkers, and so on”. I have to disagree that other human beings have been the filter through which our entire sense of ‘me’ has been shaped, though I definitely agree they have a preponderant role (I would be interested in Clerics comment on this point).

Yes, it is true there is a uniqueness to each perspective on the Whole, but the question I am focusing on in these essays is how we transition from merely conceptualizing and speaking about that uniqueness 'on paper' to actually appreciating it from within? Just as we only gain an objective understanding of our personal soul constitution when viewing it from the wider World-perspective, we only gain an objective understanding of what each soul uniquely paints on the common canvas when viewing it from the perspective of that canvas, i.e. the intuitive curvatures we all share in common. (I too would be interested in any thoughts Cleric wants to share on this, or any, point, as always!)

Federica wrote:***

In conclusion, I appreciate that you boldly challenge the common, largely unscrutinized, mind habits of feeling cozy and safe in one’s own private thought-bubble. We tend to condone very easily our thoughts that infringe the Tenth Commandment, as you suggest, even in inner contradiction with philosophical and religious convictions. This needs to be brought to attention, and hardly anyone is doing it. So, on the one hand, I am glad you are doing it:

Attaining spiritual sight is synonymous with taking more creative responsibility for our thought-sprays and becoming more improvisational in our thinking, i.e. gradually closing the gap between our real-time spiritual activity, the resulting mental pictures, and their outer expression. We should start to feel like anything we think and feel is immediately worn on our outer physiognomy such that the whole World can see. (2) Only in this way do we feel motivated to learn how to craft and wield our sprays more wisely.

On the other hand though, I am concerned that, in the context in which you are doing it, the call is incommensurate with the context - as detailed above. Moreover, how can the threat of shame (wearing our thoughts and feelings such that the whole World can see them) be an authentic motivator? I believe the motivation to mind our thoughts and feelings, rather than only our acts, needs to come from a positive understanding, as epitomized in, for example: “Not I but Christ in me”. I believe that shortcuts such as imagining we already have direct knowledge, wouldn't be heard, let alone work. Conversely, when one slowly begins to raise spiritual sight to an ideal such as 'Christ in me', that’s when the desire to cultivate the private thinking and feeling space, slowly and organically, begins to weaken.

I think shame and guilt are highly productive feelings for inner development when viewed from the proper perspective, i.e. the wider World-perspective. We should remember that attaining spiritual sight is synonymous with experiencing what otherwise unfolds across the threshold of death. That is the intuition that I was working with when expressing the bold. Across the threshold, we can no longer hide our thoughts or feelings in our 'private space' (or, put another way, we are disabused of illusion that we ever had such a private space). What we think and feel is immediately expressed as our outer physiognomy for all other souls to see. As more of spiritual reality condenses into the manifest spectrum, this will also be the case in physical life, as Steiner indicates in various places. Our countenance and physiognomy in general will be the immediate expression of our inner life (again, this is already the case, but the relationship is still quite out-of-phase). We cannot attain spiritual sight if we hesitate to experience this post-death and future Earthly reality in the here and now.

Across the threshold, the natural feelings of shame and guilt are viewed from the proper perspective, as the fully righteous judgment of the Divine Cosmos. We are enthusiastic to get this feedback from the hierarchies on all the ways in which our feeling- and thought-sprays are disrupting their symphonic activity. That is how it should also become during Earthly life. It is true if that we simply maintain the flattened intellectual perspective and then immerse ourselves in shame or guilt about our thoughts, that will cripple us and lead to resignation. That's why we shouldn't arbitrarily seek out this feeling of wearing our inner states as outer physiognomy, but rather it should emerge as a natural consequence of our cognitive development, as the higher Self incarnates more and more into our ordinary conscious state.

I realize you are aware of these points and even hinted to them in your post, but again, I am trying to figure out how it feels too rushed for you, how 'the call is incommensurate with the context' for you.

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:31 pm
by AshvinP
AshvinP wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:06 pm Thanks Federica, for both the positive and critical feedback. As a preliminary remark, I don't want to focus much on hypothetical readers and how they may interact with the essay's ideas. The fact is that neither of us can know the kind of readers they will draw, now or in the future, or how those readers will interact with them, and it would thus remain very speculative. Therefore I think it is more productive to focus only on how you are interacting with the ideas.

By the way, I understand that part of your critique is that you feel I am too confidently feeling like I can directly perceive other soul's inner states, which you feel is evidenced by various comments I have made. But here again I need more specifics for this to be useful feedback. That overconfidence would be revealed by logical inconsistencies or errors in my comments about how others are thinking through experience. We have already established that I don't express such observations ideally, but the question is whether I have a basis to express them at all. I obviously don't claim to know the inner karmic configurations of other souls, the deepest depths of their soul curvatures, but one of the first things we become sensitive to is how their philosophical, religious, and scientific thinking unfolds along common soul curvatures of assumptions, expectations, habits, etc. As far as I can tell, my observations have always been limited to that domain where I have indeed grown inner sensitivity, which is the only reason why I can somewhat clearly articulate and illustrate the issues in these essays.

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 5:33 pm
by Federica
AshvinP wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:06 pm As a preliminary remark, I don't want to focus much on hypothetical readers and how they may interact with the essay's ideas.

Agreed - I didn’t intend to focus on hypothetical readers, that would be speculative indeed, but on your attitude as you sequentially and non casually put your writings out there - for possible readers, inevitably.

AshvinP wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:06 pm In the context of an ongoing series of essays, which is consistently illustrating how we only approach the higher realities through ongoing effort, symbolic thinking, strengthened soul forces, and corresponding deeper scales of inner activity, do you feel that you are being led into certain ideas and overlaps too hurriedly, before you have a chance to 'work through your own soul configuration sufficiently'?

For me in particular, I can’t say I feel I am being led into ideas too hurriedly or too slowly, since you refer to foundational ideas which have been approached in this forum in the past, and by Steiner. I have already had multiple opportunities to work with the ideal of compassion for other souls, the reality of a pervasive soul space with no dissociative bubbles of consciousness, and the inconsistency of the popular “thoughts pay no toll” mind habit. You are bringing novelty in how you contextualize, flesh out, and leverage these ideas, which I appreciate and find useful, as said, to a large extent. And, after a few years, I have a certain sense of how you, versus Cleric and others, conduct and lay out your thought process, so it’s interesting to read your take. But I can’t say the ideas in these essays are new to me.

AshvinP wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 5:06 pm I think orienting to the overlap between ordinary philosophical, scientific, and everyday thinking, and higher realities, has been a consistent theme of many essays/posts by both Cleric and myself over the last year. For example, when Luke asked Cleric about Intuitive cognition, he responded:

[...]

I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) you wouldn't feel this is an example of 'faking it until you make it'. So what specifically in my essay differentiates the above from what I have been pointing to from various angles? I need more specific examples to get a sense of where you are drawing the line between usefully exploring the overlap between our ordinary consciousness and the higher transpersonal experiences through various illustrations, metaphors, etc., and too boldly straying into 'fake it until you make it' territory. This post from Cleric about exercising the virtues is another example we could use - does that fall into unproductive 'faking it' territory?

Yes, I don’t think the quoted examples from Cleric are a case of “fake it until you make it”, and I agree that what you call “the overlap” between everyday thinking and higher realities - which I would simply call phenomenology - has been a consistent theme of many essays/posts. Even a foundational element. And so, yes, the virtues can and should be imperfectly cultivated in the here and now, starting from where one is at. And yes, anyone may experience flashes of intuition here and now, as hinted by Clerics rotating Moiré patterns animation. In the same sense, if today is your first day at tennis school, and you dream of eventually reaching the top of the world ranking, you can start improving your skills in the here and now, knowing that the future champion in potential would ace his future shots from within the same bodily constitution which is yours today, not from someone elses. There is an overlap from which the experience of practice and progression can begin.

However, in this essay, you seem to venture beyond similar lines. You seem to go from (legitimately) questioning an assumption - as in the very first lines of the essay - to assuming its opposite, to acting according to such an opposite assumption, and to encouraging the reader to do the same. When you propose to imagine that we always have direct knowledge of other souls’ inners states, which you don’t limit to philosophical speculations, but extend to inner states across the spectrum of thinking, feeling, and even physical states of pain; when you affirm that those inner states stop to be an enigma when we focus on the underlying movements; when you work out and share your findings - observations, as you call them - in terms of what inner states other souls are experiencing (“such are your current thoughts movements, such are your current feelings, such is the reason of it all”); when you do all that, you propose more than recognizing the speck of intuition in the here and now, practicing the virtues, or training your forehand and backhand on the court. Hence the “fake it until you make it” sense.

Also, in the Cleric quote, the idea of “overlap” is balanced with a warning: one should still expect the unexpected, not to think that one already knows along which rails one’s cognitive capacity will expand. You too have many times emphasized the importance of expecting the unexpected, that higher consciousness should not be imagined in any way similar to present, familiar experiences. But in this essay you part from that. You even give the example of feeling someone else’s physical pain, like from burning. While empathy and intuitive cognition are surely possible today, feeling someone elses physical pain is a skill for the sixth PA epoch. Not to exclude that some very exceptional beings living in a physical human body today are able to feel that, but I hope I have clarified some more why all this has a “fake it until you make it” taste, as I see it, when you present the foundational idea of the shared soul space in this way.

I think shame and guilt are highly productive feelings for inner development when viewed from the proper perspective, i.e. the wider World-perspective. We should remember that attaining spiritual sight is synonymous with experiencing what otherwise unfolds across the threshold of death. That is the intuition that I was working with when expressing the bold. [We should start to feel like anything we think and feel is immediately worn on our outer physiognomy such that the whole World can see.] Across the threshold, we can no longer hide our thoughts or feelings in our 'private space' (or, put another way, we are disabused of illusion that we ever had such a private space).

I may be wrong about this, but I doubt that shame and guilt are highly productive feelings as you describe, from an across-the-threshold perspective. I believe that shame and guilt are Earthly feelings, self-protecting feelings, thus egotistic feelings, that are transformed and disintegrated across the threshold. I think that the idea of wearing our non-virtuous thoughts and feelings for everyone to see, so as to feel shame, can be a thing only from an Earthly perspective. Across the threshold there is no outer or inner physiognomy on which to rock our features as clothes, to start with. One is rather scattered across the entire soul space. And, rather than feeling ashamed or guilty about ones Earthly acts, thoughts or feelings, one directly experiences the concretion of those same states from within the perspective of the other consciousnesses involved, not as a mirror, but because one inhabits those perspectives. We need to be incarnated to feel shame, I strongly believe. The preconditions for shame as such, are disintegrated across the threshold. So I would maintain that we need a positive state to attract the transformation of our usual desire for a duty-free soul space, rather than trying to induce a feeling of shame.

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:40 pm
by AshvinP
Federica wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 5:33 pm However, in this essay, you seem to venture beyond similar lines. You seem to go from (legitimately) questioning an assumption - as in the very first lines of the essay - to assuming its opposite, to acting according to such an opposite assumption, and to encouraging the reader to do the same. When you propose to imagine that we always have direct knowledge of other souls’ inners states, which you don’t limit to philosophical speculations, but extend to inner states across the spectrum of thinking, feeling, and even physical states of pain; when you affirm that those inner states stop to be an enigma when we focus on the underlying movements; when you work out and share your findings - observations, as you call them - in terms of what inner states other souls are experiencing (“such are your current thoughts movements, such are your current feelings, such is the reason of it all”); when you do all that, you propose more than recognizing the speck of intuition in the here and now, practicing the virtues, or training your forehand and backhand on the court. Hence the “fake it until you make it” sense.

Federica, are you implying that, simply by my suggestion to conceptualize ('imagining') the structure of reality as superimposed first-person experiential flow of inner states, I am equating that to already knowing those inner states? In the wider context of the essays, I cannot figure out you would possibly arrive at such an idea, especially since I positively counter it in the essay. That context for the discussion of 'direct perception' cannot simply be ignored.

Instead, we can imagine that we always have direct perception of inner temporal states which feel to belong to other first-person perspectives, only there are various inner constraints on our psycho-physical organization that make this perception more or less fragmented, more or less lucid, more or less precise (which is also the case for spatial perception)
...
In both cases, we only attain sight when the impressions are harmonically related and their functions in our experience shine forth.
...
This observation is merely pointing to the fact that we don’t have complete perception of inner states at any given time. This fact is just as true for our own inner states as it is for others. Most of the time I am not sensitive to the blood coursing through my body, however if I receive a frightening scare and my heart starts racing, and I can discriminate this experience (through thinking) from other sensory experiences, I then know the existence of inner states that were previously unknown.
...
The only thing preventing perspectives from directly perceiving the spiritual experiences of others is the failure to ‘get up and move’, i.e. to take an active and loving interest in the ideas, goals, feelings, and impulses which animate these other perspectives.
...
Another important consideration here is that ‘living through’ an experience does not equate to perceiving and knowing that experience. After all, the question is precisely whether we can perceive and know the inner states of other perspectives, not simply whether we can live through them in the exact same way. An animal which lives through the waves of pain, joy, hunger, etc. cannot be said to have knowledge of those inner states, rather it reactively moves from state to state like a fish in water. We only have knowledge of inner states, whether they feel to belong to our perspective or another perspective, when such experiences are actively attended to and discriminated.

That is just the immediate context. One would have to ignore practically the entire essay and the previous ones to think I am "assuming the opposite and encouraging the reader to do the same", that I am equating practicing the serves with acing the future shots. Thus the reasoning for your critique makes no sense in the context of the essays.

And you are still failing to provide any specific examples of "when you work out and share your findings - observations, as you call them - in terms of what inner states other souls are experiencing (“such are your current thoughts movements, such are your current feelings, such is the reason of it all”)". When you finally do so, I think it will be evident that my observations are no different than the sort of observations both Cleric and you have made on the forum as well when discussing the way other souls are thinking about reality, about how certain habits and feelings are steering that thinking into common traps.

Also, in the Cleric quote, the idea of “overlap” is balanced with a warning: one should still expect the unexpected, not to think that one already knows along which rails one’s cognitive capacity will expand. You too have many times emphasized the importance of expecting the unexpected, that higher consciousness should not be imagined in any way similar to present, familiar experiences. But in this essay you part from that. You even give the example of feeling someone else’s physical pain, like from burning. While empathy and intuitive cognition are surely possible today, feeling someone elses physical pain is a skill for the sixth PA epoch. Not to exclude that some very exceptional beings living in a physical human body today are able to feel that, but I hope I have clarified some more why all this has a “fake it until you make it” taste, as I see it, when you present the foundational idea of the shared soul space in this way.

Where do I say that we can already experience-perceive another soul's physical pain at the same intensity as we experience our own? Again, one would have to ignore the entire context to take that isolated sentence and conclude that I am implying such a radical thing. For the sake of accuracy, the sentence in question was,

"It seems ‘self-evident’ that I cannot know another perspective’s pain when I see them on fire like I know my own pain when I am burned."

There is no "example" here. It is simply a fact that most people feel this is 'self-evident' and it therefore prevents them from even beginning the work of coinciding more with another's perspective.

Federica wrote:
I think shame and guilt are highly productive feelings for inner development when viewed from the proper perspective, i.e. the wider World-perspective. We should remember that attaining spiritual sight is synonymous with experiencing what otherwise unfolds across the threshold of death. That is the intuition that I was working with when expressing the bold. [We should start to feel like anything we think and feel is immediately worn on our outer physiognomy such that the whole World can see.] Across the threshold, we can no longer hide our thoughts or feelings in our 'private space' (or, put another way, we are disabused of illusion that we ever had such a private space).

I may be wrong about this, but I doubt that shame and guilt are highly productive feelings as you describe, from an across-the-threshold perspective. I believe that shame and guilt are Earthly feelings, self-protecting feelings, thus egotistic feelings, that are transformed and disintegrated across the threshold. I think that the idea of wearing our non-virtuous thoughts and feelings for everyone to see, so as to feel shame, can be a thing only from an Earthly perspective. Across the threshold there is no outer or inner physiognomy on which to rock our features as clothes, to start with. One is rather scattered across the entire soul space. And, rather than feeling ashamed or guilty about ones Earthly acts, thoughts or feelings, one directly experiences the concretion of those same states from within the perspective of the other consciousnesses involved, not as a mirror, but because one inhabits those perspectives. We need to be incarnated to feel shame, I strongly believe. The preconditions for shame as such, are disintegrated across the threshold. So I would maintain that we need a positive state to attract the transformation of our usual desire for a duty-free soul space, rather than trying to induce a feeling of shame.

Do you have anything from spiritual science to support this opinion and strong belief? Because I think there is plenty to show how, indeed, it is not in accordance with the facts of higher worlds. As we have spoken many times before, in our soul life we are already experiencing the higher worlds, even while incarnated. Why, for example, do we have spend about the same amount of time re-experiencing our Earthly deeds after death as we spent sleeping during Earthly life? We only need to take the proper perspective on our feelings to realize these intimate overlaps and to realize shame, guilt, etc. is meaningful feedback from our experience in these higher worlds across the threshold of death, that we are still experiencing here and now in decohered form.

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2025 9:23 pm
by Federica
AshvinP wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:40 pm ...
Ashvin, I haven't ignored the context of this and your other essays/posts. As I said above, it is a thin line to work with, and my remarks apply to the entire context, including your last quotes above, such as "the only thing preventing us from knowing the spiritual experiences of others is the failure to take an active and loving interest in their soul." But I don't see any benefit in developing this further at this point, even less in listing examples of your observations. You have carte blanche how to interpret that.

On the question of shame: "Why, for example, do we have spend about the same amount of time re-experiencing our Earthly deeds after death as we spent sleeping during Earthly life?"

My understanding is: because we have to live in the thoughts and feelings we have caused in others, not because we have to "wear" the non-virtuous states from a focused perspective, who then feels the shame of being seen as guilty of those states. I have never researched this topic in particular, and I don't have Steiner quotes to point to. Do you have some reasoning or quotes to support that one feels shame beyond the threshold from "wearing" one's bad Earthly thoughts?

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 12:13 am
by AshvinP
Federica wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 9:23 pm On the question of shame: "Why, for example, do we have spend about the same amount of time re-experiencing our Earthly deeds after death as we spent sleeping during Earthly life?"

My understanding is: because we have to live in the thoughts and feelings we have caused in others, not because we have to "wear" the non-virtuous states from a focused perspective, who then feels the shame of being seen as guilty of those states. I have never researched this topic in particular, and I don't have Steiner quotes to point to. Do you have some reasoning or quotes to support that one feels shame beyond the threshold from "wearing" one's bad Earthly thoughts?

Sure, there are plenty of quotes. Obviously one does not experience 'shame' across the threshold like it is experienced from our ordinary intellectual perspective - that would make no sense, since our experience of shame is aliased precisely by our intellectual thoughts which don't survive the transition. The key point is that our ordinary mental pictures of the feeling of shame can be traced to the higher experiences across the threshold, if we don't avoid such feelings but rather embrace them from the proper perspective and try to heed what they have to teach us.

It is also worth contemplating if there is any meaningful feedback to be integrated from this discussion, whether it has any relation to the pattern of feeling uncomfortable with concretely exploring how the tennis practice overlaps with the professional matches. Just like keeping the carrot in front of the donkey, i.e. projecting cognitive perception of the higher realities into the indefinite future when we become 'clairvoyant' and start acing our shots, it can be a subtle way to justify not attaining that perception in the here and now. And if we aren't attaining that perception, we will surely prefer that others aren't either (except for the initiates and masters 'out there', but surely not on this forum).

Put another way, we can think about how convenient it would be if feelings like shame and guilt about our thoughts and feelings were artificial conditions of our incarnate state that simply 'transform and disintegrate' across the threshold. Isn't it more pleasant if we can mostly ignore those feelings now? We don't form such beliefs in a vacuum - they have lessons to teach us about our inner soul states (which we share with other souls) if we are open to the feedback. And we don't need to be full-fledged clairvoyants to perceive and know those inner states and integrate that feedback! This is exactly how we make spiritual science more concrete and we begin to expand our aperture of perception, because what we concretely perceive within ourselves will also be recognized in the World.

These things can be explored dispassionately on a forum such as this one (perhaps only on a forum such as this one) and we can indeed start to experience what otherwise unfolds across the threshold, which is enthusiasm for the feedback. Then the following quote is not felt like something we only know after death, and that we can only abstractly reflect on right now, but starts to feel like something which is already present and something which we are intuitively researching through the discussions of this forum, as also through our personal meditations.


https://rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA231/En ... 14p01.html
This spirit-form of the human being is involved, as we said, in a constant process of change. More and more it approaches what can only be described by saying: The spirit-form becomes one great “physiognomy.” To the Imaginative sight possessed by the Initiate and also by one who has passed through the gate of death, a kind of physiognomy makes its appearance. But this physiognomy is the whole human being, not merely part of him. The whole human being, in his spirit-form, presents a physiognomy that is the expression of his being in its moral and spiritual inwardness. After death a bad man will not have the same appearance as a good man. A man who has made strenuous efforts during his life on Earth will not look the same as one who has lived thoughtlessly or wantonly. But we do not find this expressed merely in the “countenance.” In fact, the actual countenance loses much of the physiognomical expression that was stamped upon it in physical life, and what is retained tends to become more and more indefinite. In contrast to this, the other parts of the body become singularly expressive—particularly the region where the inner organs of breathing are situated. The physiognomical form assumed by this region reveals the permanent qualities in a man's character. The whole breast system takes on a definite physiognomical appearance within the spirit-form after death and reveals whether the man was possessed of courage or whether he was timid, whether he approached life with a certain boldness and bravery or whether he invariably shrank away from the buffets of life, and so forth.

The arms and hands also become peculiarly expressive after death. From the arms and hands one can, in effect, read the biography of the human being between birth and death—most clearly of all from the hands, which even in physical life are full of significance and divulge much to an intelligent observer. The way in which a man moves his fingers, how he holds out his hand to us, whether he only offers his finger tips or gives a warm hand-shake—all this can tell a very great deal. Much can also be learned by studying the forms assumed by the hands when a man is sitting quietly, or when he is at his work. Such things pass unnoticed, as a rule; but human beings become much more interesting, when we observe what they do with their hands and fingers, for here they divulge what they really are. After death this is true in a far higher degree; the life-history can be read from the appearance assumed by the arms and hands.

It is the same with other organs. Everything becomes expressive, everything becomes physiognomy. After death the human being wears his moral-spiritual physiognomy.

Yesterday's lecture showed us how the human being is built up and “formed” by the Cosmos and how the skin and sense-organs are an expression of the form that is inscribed into the cosmic ether. After death, the form that is given to man by the skin which encloses him becomes a physiognomical expression of his moral and spiritual being; and it remains so for a considerable time.

As human beings begin to find their way into this new kind of life, they meet there other human beings with whom, in earthly life, they have had a companionship of spirit, mind and heart. And no pretence is possible any longer between them. For what each man is, and what his feeling is toward his fellow-man, is faithfully expressed in the physiognomy I have described. During this period of the life after death—it follows the period of “trial,” of which I do not propose to speak to-day—men live together with those with whom destiny has in any way connected them in the last earthly life,—or in any other earthly life. They learn to know one another thoroughly, for they behold the physiognomical forms of which we have been speaking. Life consists, in this period, in learning to know those with whom one is connected by destiny. You must try to imagine what a close and intimate mutual scrutiny this is. The word sounds perhaps a little commonplace, but it expresses the reality. Each human being stands fully revealed before the other, with the whole meaning of their common destinies unveiled. In this way they are continually going past one another, meeting one another.

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:49 am
by Federica
AshvinP wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 12:13 am The key point is that our ordinary mental pictures of the feeling of shame can be traced to the higher experiences across the threshold, if we don't avoid such feelings but rather embrace them from the proper perspective and try to heed what they have to teach us.



Yes, they can be traced, like any other mental pictures, since none of them comes out of nowhere. Then don’t you think the key point is to trace the activity that causes us to feel shame, directly, rather than the earthly feeling of shame in particular which certain spiritual activity has caused?
It is also worth contemplating if there is any meaningful feedback to be integrated from this discussion, whether it has any relation to the pattern of feeling uncomfortable with concretely exploring how the tennis practice overlaps with the professional matches.

A side note on form: I appreciate your adjusted formulation in the rest of your post - that’s better :)

On the substance of your warning: yes, you are pointing to a real risk, but why should one who is not attaining that perception, surely prefer that others aren't either (except for the initiates and masters 'out there', but surely not on this forum)? That is not what I prefer or believe. Now, to be frank, when it comes to you in particular, if I had to ponder it - which I do not consider necessary per se, but now I’m doing it, since you speculate on my preferences about it - I actually don’t know, but I admit that certain ingrained habits I have consistently noticed seem incompatible with the attainment of that perception. At the same time I see that you are now making some efforts, so I really don't know. To your speculation: I don’t doubt there would be much I’d be cosmically ashamed of, or pained by, if I had vision beyond the threshold, but I do doubt that part of that would be because of envy or similar feelings for others on this forum, or elsewhere. So why did you write that?

Put another way, we can think about how convenient it would be if feelings like shame and guilt about our thoughts and feelings were artificial conditions of our incarnate state that simply 'transform and disintegrate' across the threshold. Isn't it more pleasant if we can mostly ignore those feelings now?

I have no illusion that the reality of disharmonious soul activity when realized, causes a flow of many ‘inconvenient’ states beyond the threshold. But I don’t see that trying to induce shame here and now for being glad that some spiritual activity remains hidden for some of our neighbors, is a productive effort to come closer to that threshold. As said, my experience is that working on positive phenomenology, on the positive virtues, on study meditation, is the sure way to directly diminish or empty the very thoughts/actions that we then experience as shameful. I agree that being attentive to all our feelings, including shame, is necessary, in order to simply control and stir our feeling life more consciously. But I doubt that shame can retroact on the activity that caused it, so to say, if the focus is not on the upstream flow. That shame is an involuntary, reactive feeling. What needs to be treated is the cause of the shame first and foremost. One does that through disciplined improving of spiritual scientific understanding.

I don't say that usual shame is an artificial condition of the incarnated state. It does signal a disharmonious soul state and needs to be looked into with dispassion, but the main problem is the activity that caused it. The realization of our entire 'disharmony debt' to awaken to beyond the threshold depends on that activity, not on the earthly feeling of shame the activity may cause. Some people are shameless, no matter how inadmissible their activity is. Others may be self-conscious and ashamed for no reason. Earthly shame seems to me like an indirect marker of disharmony. Again, not to flee from that feeling, but I believe there are more direct ways to come closer to the aims.

All this said, I recognize there is a constant pull toward projecting cognitive perception of the higher realities into the indefinite future. It’s a balance to find, since one also has to be careful not to fake it to oneself, and read stuff when one actually does not know. I don’t have the exact recipe, but I am thankful for the feedback that comes, directly and indirectly, including from this forum.

Re: Essay: On Attaining Spiritual Sight (Part IV)

Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:19 pm
by AshvinP
Federica wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2025 11:49 am
AshvinP wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 12:13 am The key point is that our ordinary mental pictures of the feeling of shame can be traced to the higher experiences across the threshold, if we don't avoid such feelings but rather embrace them from the proper perspective and try to heed what they have to teach us.



Yes, they can be traced, like any other mental pictures, since none of them comes out of nowhere. Then don’t you think the key point is to trace the activity that causes us to feel shame, directly, rather than the earthly feeling of shame in particular which certain spiritual activity has caused?
It is also worth contemplating if there is any meaningful feedback to be integrated from this discussion, whether it has any relation to the pattern of feeling uncomfortable with concretely exploring how the tennis practice overlaps with the professional matches.

A side note on form: I appreciate your adjusted formulation in the rest of your post - that’s better :)

On the substance of your warning: yes, you are pointing to a real risk, but why should one who is not attaining that perception, surely prefer that others aren't either (except for the initiates and masters 'out there', but surely not on this forum)? That is not what I prefer or believe. Now, to be frank, when it comes to you in particular, if I had to ponder it - which I do not consider necessary per se, but now I’m doing it, since you speculate on my preferences about it - I actually don’t know, but I admit that certain ingrained habits I have consistently noticed seem incompatible with the attainment of that perception. At the same time I see that you are now making some efforts, so I really don't know. To your speculation: I don’t doubt there would be much I’d be cosmically ashamed of, or pained by, if I had vision beyond the threshold, but I do doubt that part of that would be because of envy or similar feelings for others on this forum, or elsewhere. So why did you write that?

Federica, you are simply much more confident than I am in knowing your inner states than I am in knowing mine (which is ironic, given your original critique). As I wrote in Part III -"this invisible structure is first reflected in everything we normally conceive of as our stream of thoughts, beliefs, expectations, and desires, and at a slightly deeper scale, as sympathies and antipathies which steer our soul states in one direction or another, toward pleasure and away from displeasure (physical and psychological). We need to remember, that in our ordinary consciousness, we only have mental pictures of these soul constraints and those pictures cannot be confused for the constraints themselves."

I'm not really trying to locate any specific preferences, fears, envies, etc. that are working in your soul state with 100% certainty, but simply pointing attention to the fact that (a) we don't already know through our mere mental pictures and (b) all of these are working in the depths of practically every human personality incarnate today, in various archetypal constellations which may be emphasized in unique ways and through unique forms of arguments, positions, opinions, beliefs, etc. by each personality. These are inner patterns of soul activity that we simply discover on the path of attaining spiritual sight, even early on. And we will surely numb our sensitivity to such inner patterns if we hold opinions at the surface about 'what I prefer or believe', 'what I doubt is happening', and so on. We must remain humbly open to discovering these normally unsuspected living realities within our soul state if we aim for becoming more sensitive to them.

I know this cuts against everything we learn to feel in modern culture. How can we even have a discourse if we can't speak about what we prefer, believe, etc. and someone keeps telling us we don't know our own inner states? This is exactly what I wanted to emphasize in the essay - perhaps we are so adamant about the division between 'my' and 'your' states because we simply assume we are familiar with our own inner states. Making this confession is the only way we can begin to do genuine spiritual research and unveil a greater aperture of inner states, our own personal to begin with but increasingly overlapping with other souls. Our discourse needs to become something fundamentally different than stating opinions about what we imagine we prefer, believe, etc. That sort of discourse will continually numb our sensitivity to attaining actual perception-knowledge of the inner states. Instead we can loosely and intuitively explore the soul curvatures and remain open to how they may be influencing our emotional and conceptual states, slowly tracing more and more of those influences (with the help of forum discussions, lectures, prayer and meditations, etc.).

Federica wrote:
Put another way, we can think about how convenient it would be if feelings like shame and guilt about our thoughts and feelings were artificial conditions of our incarnate state that simply 'transform and disintegrate' across the threshold. Isn't it more pleasant if we can mostly ignore those feelings now?

I have no illusion that the reality of disharmonious soul activity when realized, causes a flow of many ‘inconvenient’ states beyond the threshold. But I don’t see that trying to induce shame here and now for being glad that some spiritual activity remains hidden for some of our neighbors, is a productive effort to come closer to that threshold. As said, my experience is that working on positive phenomenology, on the positive virtues, on study meditation, is the sure way to directly diminish or empty the very thoughts/actions that we then experience as shameful. I agree that being attentive to all our feelings, including shame, is necessary, in order to simply control and stir our feeling life more consciously. But I doubt that shame can retroact on the activity that caused it, so to say, if the focus is not on the upstream flow. That shame is an involuntary, reactive feeling. What needs to be treated is the cause of the shame first and foremost. One does that through disciplined improving of spiritual scientific understanding.

I don't say that usual shame is an artificial condition of the incarnated state. It does signal a disharmonious soul state and needs to be looked into with dispassion, but the main problem is the activity that caused it. The realization of our entire 'disharmony debt' to awaken to beyond the threshold depends on that activity, not on the earthly feeling of shame the activity may cause. Some people are shameless, no matter how inadmissible their activity is. Others may be self-conscious and ashamed for no reason. Earthly shame seems to me like an indirect marker of disharmony. Again, not to flee from that feeling, but I believe there are more direct ways to come closer to the aims.

Let's put this way - we will start experiencing more and more shame as we pursue spiritual sight. This underlying feeling is always there beneath the surface but we will become more sensitive to it. However, the experience of that shame will be different than if we were experiencing it from our flattened intellectual perspective, without any clue as to why we feel shame or what it can be traced to or how we can even begin that tracing (in which case constant shame can indeed become highly unproductive). When we orient to it from the proper recursive perspective, with gradually increasingly intuitive knowledge of how/why it arrives in our state, we could call it a feeling of 'righteous reproach', 'righteous judgment', or something similar, the sort of feeling that inspired countless verses of ancient scripture where souls experienced it as a great blessing from higher worlds. For example:

"Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.

The law of the wise is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death.

Good understanding giveth favour: but the way of transgressors is hard.

Every prudent man dealeth with knowledge: but a fool layeth open his folly.

A wicked messenger falleth into mischief: but a faithful ambassador is health.

Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured."
(Proverbs 13:13-18)


This 'reproof' of our inner states is simply something that will emerge more and more in our conscious state as we approach the threshold and then the question is, how will we react to it? We should always keep in mind the dynamic interplay of activity and resulting perceptual states. We learn and trace the former through the latter. The modern mystic, for example, tries to put more and more distance between these, trying to suppress the latter and experience 'pure activity'. In this way they sever (or obscure) the feedback loop between activity and perception. Their attention gets sucked into the activity pole but there is no meaningful feedback for that activity to become self-conscious at higher levels. The underlying reasons for steering in this direction are precisely because they would rather not confront the shame, guilt, fears, anxieties, etc. that are always living beneath the surface.

In that sense, there is no 'treating the cause' of shame without going through the experience of shame and heeding it as reproof, allowing it to help direct our attention toward the proper soul domains, where we can then become conscious and work with deeper inner scales of activity. We need to maintain the dynamic feedback loop at all times. 

All this said, I recognize there is a constant pull toward projecting cognitive perception of the higher realities into the indefinite future. It’s a balance to find, since one also has to be careful not to fake it to oneself, and read stuff when one actually does not know. I don’t have the exact recipe, but I am thankful for the feedback that comes, directly and indirectly, including from this forum.
This is also part of the Catch-22. The only way to get a better appreciation of when we are 'faking it', i.e. when we are overextending our claims to knowledge of inner states, is to also grow into a wider aperture of spiritual perception. Otherwise we only have our horizontal mental pictures to work with and any combination of them which feels internally coherent can be mistaken for 'true knowledge' of either our inner states or those of other souls. In fact, because we cannot navigate life without presupposing the inner states of other souls, we will then presume to know those inner states and end up 'faking it', whether we intend to or not. So, in a certain sense, we are always faking it and the only way to grow sensitivity to when and how we are faking it is to stop faking it, beginning within a steadily growing aperture of our soul life. Otherwise we might be continually worrying about 'faking it' and use that as a basis not to grow the aperture of soul-spiritual perception, but in that way we end up, by default, faking it more than ever.