Güney27 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:34 pm I am currently watching anthroposophical introductory videos on YouTube, there is a lot of talk about spiritual evolution, e.g.
The Egyptians considered clairvoyance to be normal because in their time it was common to perceive things which are supernatural. however, I wonder how one can access the states of consciousness of previous humans it is a statement that can never really be verified by our own experience, because how are we supposed to know what humans perceived thousands of years ago, we can at most from literature try to trace back the state of consciousness of the people through language, but we will never be able to know with full conscience what people perceived at that time.
In addition, it is said that we get the theoretical basis for clairvoyant abilities, the initiate knows what the clairvoyant sees. however, we are not again in a realm of abstraction when it comes to a theoretical foundation. It is also said that people who deal with anthroposophy in this life will probably have clairvoyant abilities in the next life. We thus receive a science which is intended to provide us with knowledge about the life of the soul or spirituality. However, if the initiate relies on the perceptions of clairvoyance, then it is no more than a belief, only through direct and personal experience can knowledge of the spiritual come about. what is your opinion on Carl Gustav Jung and his idea of the collective subconscious and archetypes? To what extent are Rudolf Steiner's teachings compatible with Jung's teachers? What does Rudolf Steiner say about the active imagination as described and implemented by Jung or Goethe?
Kind regards
Guney,
This is a tricky subject, because the concept of linear time is so ingrained for the intellect. We habitually conceive time as stream of events which pass through our experience from the 'future' into the 'past' and then they only exist as our own mental pictures in remembrance of "what already happened", i.e. they practically disappear from existence. I am not in great position to provide clarity here, as it really requires higher consciousness to adequately get our hands around Time-experience as less or more integrated modes of cognitive being. The intellect is only familiar with linear time and therefore has nothing to compare it to. Cleric's essay on the Time-Consciousness Spectrum should be helpful to get a better understanding of Time-experience from first-person perspective on overarching ideas of experience. .
One could say that more integrated cognitive states perceive more of the 'past' and 'future' than less integrated ones. Consider a musical idea, such as we would engage in a VR game like Beat Saber. At its most integrated level, this musical idea encompasses all of the beats, notes/melodies, chords, verses. They are all superimposed or perfectly cohered within the Idea. Once we begin engaging the Idea in the game, it precipitates into a time-flow of beat cubes which approach us from the 'future', through our "I", and into the 'past'. These cubes repreesnt the underlying rhythm i.e. tempo of the melody and harmony. What was once a perfectly cohered Idea has become a linear time-flow of perceptual experience through our spiritual engagement with the Idea.
When we strike the beat cubes as they approach, they visually dissappear, i.e. they return to the more integrated state of super-sensible meaning. If we were to play this game with higher (more integrated) consciousness, it is practically as if the game 'slows down' for us because we perceive more of the overarching meaning which is precipitating into beat cubes. Actually it is a common phrase to say some activity has "slowed down" to mean we are more attuned to it and therefore it is more smooth and effortless - we are "in the zone" or "in the flow". We can more easily remember what has already flowed through our "I" and anticipate what is coming next, due to our expanded cognitive perception of the meaningful activity which gives rise to all the perceptual forms (reflections) embedded within the activity. So that can be a metaphor for what also happens with higher cognition in terms of accessing past states of being 'stored' in collective Memory.
As we integrate into higher archetypal domains of Ideas, we are moving from our own current localized perspective to encompass more of the holistic context which involves many more perspectives, and which our current perspective is only a dim shadow. That is why Cleric asks, in re: non-dual mystical state, why can't these people simply access another person's perspective in that state and experience all that they experience? Because they are not actually integrating to higher levels of thinking-consciousness, let alone the most integrated and encompassing state of All-Being. In this sense, what we know as 'time travel' is simply an expansion of thinking-consciousness, i.e. higher cognition, to encompass more perspectives and states of 'past' and 'future' being.
re: Jung and Steiner - I think I mentioned the book, "Jung and Steiner" by Wehr on Amazon. It's really a great resource to compare and align their respective outlooks and insights.