On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
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AshvinP
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

Post by AshvinP »

Thanks, Jeff, I too am enjoying this process of co-exploration of attentional activity and its content.
findingblanks wrote: Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:19 pm "....and simply observe the invariant fact that it certainly does happen in various circumstances."

Yes, we simply can notice that there is always attention-to-something, even if that something is very subtle. Some would say awareness, I'm fine with that. But in this context I prefer attention.

"One such example is the Arabic script that we discussed before but we can think of countless similar examples...."

I assume it doesn't matter that the script carries a mesh of meaning for me, despite not being able to read it.

One thing I would mention here is that we can place a 'theory of knowledge' within the context of the ideal of entering a shared space of understanding with fellow souls who can resonate with the same inner movements of attentional activity. This doesn't mean we discard all the more individual colorings of these intimate experiences, but we can also seek the broader significance of those colorings within the archetypal movements. As Steiner puts it in GA 1:

It absolutely does not matter at all whether the individual judgments and concepts of which our knowing consists correspond to each other or not; the only thing that matters is that they ultimately lead us to the point that we are swimming in the main channel of the idea. And all human beings must ultimately meet each other in this channel if energetic thinking leads them out of and beyond their own particular standpoints

So, in that sense, the Arabic script highlights how we have not yet incarnated the meaning, through our attentional activity, that would allow us to meet other souls in a shared space of understanding in the context of this perceptual content, i.e. to read some portion of the objective intuitive meaning that has been condensed into its artistic form.
"They only can acquire the sacred power of self-intuition, who within themselves can interpret and understand the symbol... those only, who feel in their own spirits the same instinct, which impels the chrysalis of the horned fly to leave room in the involucrum for antennae yet to come."
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AshvinP
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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I want to briefly mention that I have never approached this epistemology, as a writer or reader, in such a segmented way and I can tell there are clear disadvantages to doing so. For ex., it plays into the sensory habit of directing attention to neatly segmented objects and processes, perhaps trying to memorize the content and rely on that memory for understanding. Whereas we are aiming for attentional activity to become more fluid and organic, discerning how that activity and its content function harmoniously as a living whole. It should also become more self-sufficient and learn to kindle the inner movements that provide deeper insights without relying so much on memorized content. That is a great advantage of longer-form essays assuming readers stick with it and participate in its ongoing movements, trying to grasp it as something whole.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention that as something for us to keep in mind and try to counterbalance as much as possible, trying to keep everything hanging together rather than as separate fragmented insights.

So we experienced how there is intuitive insight within the experience of attentional activity that is unique from all other perceptual content that appears as 'given to us', i.e. as content that we don't feel causally united with, for example, various sensations, impulses, desires, emotional states, or 'fixed ideas' that emerge and overtake us quite independently of our intents and activity. The changing colors of the leaves, the feeling of thirst or hunger, the habit of bouncing our leg, the song that gets 'stuck in our head', the political rhetoric that we have become accustomed to thinking about and vocalizing, etc. 

In every experience, there is a mixture of content that is given to us and that is given by us. There is no state of being comprised of content that is entirely given by us or entirely given to us. Even if we were sitting still, shutting out sensory impressions, and actively thinking in an improvisational way, there would still be bodily processes like metabolism and neural firings correlated with our activity. All of that is still 'given to us' even if we aren't clearly aware of it at any given time. Nevertheless, we can increase our inner sensitivity to the knowing process by refining our orientation to the distinctions between these two spheres in each state of being. We can sense how their relative proportions are variable depending on the way we are conducting our attention activity, for example. Cleric provides a nice example of this distinction in his recent essay:

To our modern waking consciousness, only the crystalization of our frames of existence seems real. And additionally, we feel that the sensations in our physical kernel are relatively more real than our ephemeral mental images. This sense of ‘more real’ comes not out of some deep insight into the mystery of reality but simply because the sense impressions seem more consistent and intense compared to our mental images (like physical pain differs in intensity and persistence from imagined or remembered one). Yet, it is precisely of the latter that we can have a direct intuitive sense for their direction. For example, if we observe a fly whizzing erratically, every frame of our visual field manifests as something that we can hardly anticipate. On the other hand, if we set out to slowly count from one to ten in our mind, we have a very clear intuitive sense for how our momentary verbalizations are structured through time. The auditory vibrations of our inner voice, as we pronounce the words of the numbers, do not meet us like the erratic movements of the fly but as orderly condensation guided by our general meaningful intent to count.

So, working through such imaginative examples with our attentional activity, we can start to discern a tradeoff between sensory content that feels 'real' but lacks intuitive insight and mental images that feel ghostly but are imbued with intuition. Another slightly more complex example is story-telling. Imagine the last time you listened to someone else telling an unfamiliar story.  That experience would have met you as visual or audial sensations that you reflected on to follow their meaning. You would not have a keen intuitive sense of the overarching 'plot' of the story, why particular images and words were chosen to illustrate the story, or where the story was headed. All of these met you as mysterious elements that will only be made a comprehensive whole at some later time. That is different in the case of when we ourselves tell a story. Then we live directly in the meaningful intuitive 'shape' of the story. This shape has a unique fingerprint - we can tell our intuition for the story of getting in a car accident apart from the story of going to the circus. The particular images and words that illustrate the story are condensed from our attentional activity (intent) and therefore we live in clear intuition, at every stage of its development, of what the story is about, where it is headed, and how it will conclude.

This is a tremendously important insight to attain in our first-person experiential theory of knowledge. It provides a dawning sense of why we experience the content of our states as belonging to "me", on the one hand, and "not me", on the other. At the same time, it points in the direction we can move our attentional activity if more of the "not me" or "given to me" content can be harmonized with the "me" or "given by me" content. What degrees of freedom should our attentional activity attain to feel its mental images with more substantiality and permeate sensory-psychic content with more intuitive insight? 
"They only can acquire the sacred power of self-intuition, who within themselves can interpret and understand the symbol... those only, who feel in their own spirits the same instinct, which impels the chrysalis of the horned fly to leave room in the involucrum for antennae yet to come."
findingblanks
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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Hey, Ashivin. This has been an enjoyable and thought-provoking discussion. I appreciate the depth and care you've brought to these ideas—it’s been fascinating to explore them together. You emphasize a preference for a fluid and holistic approach to engaging with knowledge, critiquing methods that focus on segmenting and memorizing discrete objects or processes. Big agreement. Attentional activity should organically integrate its already somewhat integrated content, functioning as a dynamic whole rather than relying on fixed, memorized elements—like a stream finding its way through intricate patterns of earthy formations. The examples you offer, such as the contrast between sensory experiences, which feel more “real” but lack intuitive insight, and mental images, which may seem less tangible but carry greater intuition, struck me like a soft little butterfly suddenly finding itself in an unexpected patch of sunset sunlight. We wanna increase our sensitivity to the balance between what is “given to you” and what is “given by you," to deepen the understanding and harmonize these intricately budding experiences. Keep it coming! I'm traveling, but I should have a daily moment to dive in.
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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Here's an interlude of sorts.

Cleric has given some very refined presentations of inner epistemology in the recent essays. I want to draw attention to one particular aspect that is really critical as a foundation for these explorations:

All further progress in our discussion now depends on the reader grasping as clearly as possible how our temporally extended intuitive intents relate to the momentary condensations. For example, when we think about counting, we vaguely feel the process and can identify it by pronouncing the word ‘counting’ in our mind. The pronunciation of the word acts like an anchor where our intuition for the total process is focused. We can call this temporally extended intuition focused in a point, the concept. The most critical thing to realize is that this focused intuition and the mental image (the pronunciation of the word ‘counting’) that anchors it, portray only a symbol for the total process, they don’t contain it. To know the reality of the process we need to make it the curvature of our flow and thus experience the sequence of numeric mental images (we can count not only in words but also in visual pictures, for example, imagined apples). In exactly the same way, even though we keep referring to these things as ‘curvature of the flow’, ‘intuitive intents’, and so on, these verbal tokens are still only symbols for something that doesn’t fit in the scale of the sensible words themselves. They can only be known by feeling how we live in something meaningfully intended, which we can’t see perceptually as a ‘thing’, yet it clearly gives us intuition for the way the symbolic phenomena unfold.
...
This intuitive intent is not some additional perceptual object in our consciousness but the meaningfully curved background of its flow. Obviously, by calling it ‘meaningfully curved background’ we already condense that intuition into a verbal mental image. It is critically important to feel that difference – we can make focused (compressed) symbol of the intuitive curvature of our flow (and we just did that by calling it ‘intuitive curvature of our flow’), but the latter is not contained in it, just like a road sign with the name of a river doesn’t contain the total river flow. The difficulty facing the thinking habits of our age is that we are trying to speak of the meaningful flow that we intuitively live within all the time, yet anything we can explicate about it condenses as road signs. This doesn’t mean that the dynamic intuitive context is not a real part of experience. It is nothing but prejudice if we count as explanations only the assemblies of condensed mental images (road signs). The intuitive direction of our flow is just as much a part of our experience and we can bend that flow on a deeper level. For example, we decide to count before we have pronounced the first number in our mind or have explicitly thought “Now I will count to ten.” Thus we continuously navigate the streamlines of an invisible intuitive atmosphere and condense mental Tetris pieces that bring to focus certain aspects of this intuition.

This is such an important aspect of our experiential flow that we should get a good feel for, particularly because it will save us from entering many traps when working through phenomenological inquiries. Practically all the imaginations, illustrations, and concepts related to the 'nature of thinking and perception' presented by Steiner in PoF, for ex., can be better oriented to when we keep the above as a background feeling for their meaningful functions. It takes a lot of trust because we need to feel our way into these intuitive curvatures without clearly perceiving or conceptualizing them. For our default habits, this feels like we might be leading our attentional activity into some fantastical and/or deceptive territory, that we have departed from the truthful flow of experience altogether. Cleric also addressed this objection in various ways, for ex.:

Here one may immediately object that we don’t perceive any such ‘condensation’ of inner phenomena and thus we are not speaking of anything phenomenologically real. What we consider inner experiences, however, are not only the perceptions of our already ‘collapsed’ and receding as memory thoughts and sensations. Our intuitive sense for the direction of the flow is also part of experience. Thus, when speaking of the condensing flow we should initially turn attention to the fact that we live in something like an intuitive orientation for the concretization process at the horizon of our ‘now’ state. For example, when we tell a story from our life to a friend, we certainly don’t see our thought-words traveling from the distance as clouds and condensing in the moment of speaking but we surely have the intuitive orientation for what we are trying to express and how our thoughts in a sense condense (bring to focus) aspects of this general intuition.

That intuitive sense for the direction of the flow is a really subtle aspect of experience and therefore we need to be especially vigilant with our attentional activity to suss it out, so to speak. Yet if we manage to become more sensitive to it, the already collapsed and receding experiences will become much more explicable and begin to array themselves in more clearly discernable patterns.
"They only can acquire the sacred power of self-intuition, who within themselves can interpret and understand the symbol... those only, who feel in their own spirits the same instinct, which impels the chrysalis of the horned fly to leave room in the involucrum for antennae yet to come."
findingblanks
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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All of that sounds great. Sometimes I work in groups with people who are already fairly advanced at attending to the functioning of a felt-sense. Of course, each person has their own metaphors and words that help them point to this special kind of attending, but, once you've spoken to enough people who make this their main attentional focus, you certainly begin to see a pattern in the kinds of symbols/words that people find helpful.

"Curve" and "flow" are wonderful examples.
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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So we already explored some ways in which perceptual content is experienced as 'given by me' to the unified World process, i.e. our attentional activity provides the intuitive 'curvature' along which certain perceptual states (thoughts, feelings, sensations) unfold. We can observe these perceptual states and feel, "I contributed this content to the World process". At the same time, we have seen that all such intuitive curvatures that we feel united with are also shaped and constrained by ones that feel 'given to me'. For example, we feel the story-telling curvature by which we communicate intuition to our friend is given by me but when we condense that intuition into particular words ('condense' is an artistic symbol for the first-person experience of narrowing the verbal space of possibilities), we also sense that the linguistic structure we make use of is 'given to me' - it constraints the palette of possible words and phrases we can condense from the intuition to convey its meaning. We were given this native linguistic structure very early in childhood. That linguistic constraint may even run much deeper, influencing the way we experienced the original events that gave rise to the story.

So we know one important thing about all those psychic, biological, and physical factors that are 'given to us' - they constrain our attentional activity in characteristic ways. There is an overlap between knowledge of our intuitive thinking rhythm and the broader World rhythms insofar as the latter shape and steer the former as a riverbed shapes and steers the water streaming through it. Yet our activity is normally too weak and insensitive to penetrate the inner nature of these riverbeds through which it flows. We can only reflect on them abstractly with our thoughts and speculate, yet these speculative thoughts are themselves shaped by the riverbeds we are trying to investigate with them. In that sense, the whole process can become a recursive paradox, like a snake trying to eat its own tail - the thinking that is trying to capture the reality of the riverbeds is itself being morphed and shaped by the riverbeds as it thinks about them. Imagine you are a scientist trying to study the structure of a certain plant, yet every time you take a step, move an arm, or shift the direction of your eyes, the structure of the plant morphs into something else.

That is the quandary we find ourselves with modern thinking about 'reality' with abstract mental pictures that we shape into models and theories, but at the same time, we know that these mental pictures can anchor certain intuition for the inner constraints. They wouldn't be useful in theorizing unless they were serving that anchoring function. It is simply that focusing our attentional activity within the theorizing drowns out the subtler intuition that is being anchored by the thoughts, like the bright sunlight drowns out the starry firmament. For ex., if we direct our attentional activity such that we drive to visit a museum, there are many factors constraining that activity. Of all those factors (beyond our own desires, preferences, sympathies, etc.), the ones involving human activity will be the most intuitively resonant - we can sense how our perceptions and thoughts anchor the intuition of the inner life of other drivers on the highway because they are engaged in cognitive, emotional, and volitional activity that is quite similar to ours. On the other hand, we rarely live into this intuitive resonance but, instead, grasp for quick judgments about how the people in those vehicles are rude, dangerous, jerks, etc. We indulge in the superficial thoughts about the constraints rather than seeking greater resonance with the intuition of their inner nature that is anchored by the precipitating thoughts.

So how do we live into this intuitive resonance through the portal of thoughts about the constraints? We have to resist the constraints and thereby attain more penetrating 'flashes' of intuition about how they modify our activity and the resulting perceptual flow. Even to think theoretically about the constraints, we have to resist flowing along with the impulses for pleasurable sensations like animals and put aside time and energy to focus on the thoughts that are precipitating and combine, compare, distinguish, etc. these thoughts in various ways. The intuitive thinking technique is a natural continuation and intensification of that process by likewise resisting the theorizing tendency to awaken deeper within the contextually constrained flow of attentional activity.
"They only can acquire the sacred power of self-intuition, who within themselves can interpret and understand the symbol... those only, who feel in their own spirits the same instinct, which impels the chrysalis of the horned fly to leave room in the involucrum for antennae yet to come."
findingblanks
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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Sounds great!

If somebody read your comments above, I see why they could label them as heady or too intellectual. However, my view is that it typically only is experienced that way by somebody who isn't digging deeply into their own phenomenological processes. Also, if we speak to groups who use different linguistic symbols to point in technical ways to the direct experience, we should expect that they will almost necessarily think we are straying from direct experience; our language will have to come across that way to them; unless they've been doing this long enough to be able to catch that judgement in its very formation.

Everything you say above seems to correspond to significant experiences I have related to tracking the formation of more sensitive attentional activity. It is from that sense and in the spirit of a happy traveler that I send out this gratitude.
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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In re-reading my last comments, I realized I might need to be more clear: I'm not suggesting that anything you said warrants an accusation of being overly intellectual. No. I merely was observing, while reading, how this is the kind of conversation that often leads to such claims. Perhaps, compared to the norm, I spend more time speaking to different groups doing intense and highly detailed phenomenologies. I've grown very sensitive to how easy it is for folks to hear other language modalities and instantly translate/experience it as disconnected from felt experiencing. I am absolutely clear that you are digging into your experience and simply generating a lexicon as precise as possible from there. I am nearly daily accused of speaking from abstractions, so I was enjoying the observation of how and why this accusation is generated. I think I probably made my point, but upon re-reading I saw how the opening comment contained some pocket of ambiguity that could be taken in different directions. Take care.
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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findingblanks wrote: Mon Sep 23, 2024 1:37 am In re-reading my last comments, I realized I might need to be more clear: I'm not suggesting that anything you said warrants an accusation of being overly intellectual. No. I merely was observing, while reading, how this is the kind of conversation that often leads to such claims. Perhaps, compared to the norm, I spend more time speaking to different groups doing intense and highly detailed phenomenologies. I've grown very sensitive to how easy it is for folks to hear other language modalities and instantly translate/experience it as disconnected from felt experiencing. I am absolutely clear that you are digging into your experience and simply generating a lexicon as precise as possible from there. I am nearly daily accused of speaking from abstractions, so I was enjoying the observation of how and why this accusation is generated. I think I probably made my point, but upon re-reading I saw how the opening comment contained some pocket of ambiguity that could be taken in different directions. Take care.

Right, I understood this to be your point and completely agree. Many people quickly tune out of such discussions precisely for that reason, which is perhaps another way of saying they project their own intellectualizing habits onto the phenomenological exploration and then dismiss the latter as "too intellectual" for that reason. Things get flipped quite upside down in this way, where what is highly abstract spiritual discussion is conceived as "concrete" while what is the concrete artistic depiction of inner realities is conceived as "abstract intellectualism". I think this happens in the context of many of Steiner's books/lectures as well.

Continuing on, we can try to get a more solid orientation to what is referred to, at first abstractly, as 'intuitive curvatures' that comprise the totality of our experience between overlapping perceptual content 'given to me' and 'given by me'. As a strictly phenomenological matter, we only experience a single 'now' state of being comprised of perceptual content and attentional activity, which we tried to sensitize through previous exercises of 'zooming out' and 'zooming in'. It is much easier to get a grasp on the perceptual content since we can encompass it as receded memory pictures. Even when imagining all our knowledge, skills, etc. that form our 'intuitive context', we are focusing on the sphere of receded as memory perceptual content. For the sphere of not-yet-manifest attentional activity, we need to intuitively feel our way into it. Metaphors can act as portals that give us an imaginative anchor point for such an intuitive journey into 'the future', i.e. the unmanifest sphere of potential states that meets the already etched psychic-bodily curvatures and continually condenses as receding perceptual content. They can help us continually refine our inner orientation and make ideas that must necessarily start as abstract, become more and more concrete. 

Here is one such imaginative metaphor for the 'intuitive curvatures' from Cleric:

Consider a rail track and a small cart that can move back and forth along it. Imagine that we are shown only a photograph of it. Can we tell whether the cart was moving or stationary when the photograph was taken? We can’t tell (assuming the photo is perfect, no motion blur, etc.). The only thing we know is that at the time of photographing the cart was at a particular place along the track. Our guess about its previous or future positions would be as good as any other. Let’s imagine that it has been stationary. This can be depicted as (a) on the following graph:


Image


The horizontal line means that in the past and in the future, the cart is at the same position along the track. Now imagine that, together with the photograph, we’re told that, at the moment of the snapshot, the cart was moving at a particular speed (distance per time) in the upward direction. Now at least we know that the cart would have been below its present position a tiny amount in the past and it will be above a tiny amount in the future. If this speed has been constant then the trajectory would be (b). But what if the speed was not constant? What if it was itself changing? In other words, what if the cart may have been slowing down or accelerating? Then we can be told that, at the time of photographing, the speed has been changing at a certain amount of distance per time, per time. If this acceleration/deceleration rate was itself constant the result would be (c).

This can go further. The acceleration itself can also be changing at a certain rate. The rate of change of the acceleration can be changing at yet another rate and so on. The more of these rates (in mathematical terms – derivatives of a function) we know, the better we can know where the cart has been and will be in close vicinity to the position of the snapshot.

Now consider our first-person experience. If all we could know was a single frame of existence, we would never have any consciousness of continuity through time. Even if these frames were changing, our conscious experience would consist of completely disconnected frames of existence, it would be like quickly flashing completely random states of existence... Clearly, we can picture this only abstractly since we are suggesting to grasp in a stream of consciousness something that we claim simply can’t be grasped in that way. Nevertheless, it can be a useful stretch of our minds. Things become more realistic precisely when we begin to add these ‘rates of change’. In our context, these are simply a symbol for our intuitive orientation within the flow of existence.

Experientially, we live in an ever-metamorphosing state of existence. We only know that because we intuitively grasp that this state was one thing just an instant ago and it will be another thing very soon. But our intuition of this metamorphosis can be even richer. For example, imagine that we explain something to somebody or simply tell a story. Then the way our experiential states transform is intuitively known. We know what we are trying to explain, we know what the story we are telling is. It’s all a matter of this intuitive knowing, which is only vaguely felt, to become the groove curvature through which our thought-states and speech are sequenced. In a sense, we have a dim intuitive awareness for the way the movie of our existence unfolds. We feel that, with our needle of spiritual activity, we modulate the thought and speech phenomena into the general movie flow. We don’t do that randomly as if inscribing noise, but the frames follow a meaningful intuitive curvature.

Another useful example is singing. Even if we sing only in our mind, with our inner voice we still inscribe something in the stream of the movie. And once again this is not random. We have an intuitive orientation to the groove through which our voice vibrates. In our intuitive context, we have the dim awareness of the song as a whole, where along the song we are, how our voice curves, and so on.

So we have seen that our attentional activity can form intuitive curvatures that contribute mental pictures and certain sensory states to the World flow while, at the same time, being constrained by other intuitive curvatures of that flow. Some constraints on our activity can most easily be intuited as a receded context of previous activity. For ex., when a song gets stuck in our head, that is because we previously directed our attention to its particular qualities when experiencing the song. That previous activity and its receding memory images then became a context that attracts our current activity around its meaning. We may intend to think about something else, to focus on some other question, but our activity is constrained by this etched context and forced to iterate over its meaning for some interval of time.

When we previously directed attention to the song, we would have been performing subtle inner movements along with the rhythm, melody, and lyrics. It is like our soul life was being led through an inner dance by the song. Many times we may notice these passively experienced movements were associated with selfish qualities, like maybe we envisioned ourselves performing the song we were listening to in a packed theater in front of family, friends, colleagues, or other people we desire to impress with our imagined skills and talents. That would have made the entraining effect of the perceptual experience even more potent. In any case, there were inner movements associated with the perceptual experience of the song. Later, something stimulates the same inner movements without our explicit intent, the song pops back into attentional consciousness, and it drags our attention along for the ride. 

When we passively flow along with the intuitive curvatures stimulated by perceptual experience, we have no basis to become more sensitive to their characteristic patterns. Instead of that passive flowing, we can consciously and freely replicate similar inner movements with the express aim of becoming sensitive to their ever-receding flow. We try to intuitively 'wriggle inside' the inner process by which songs get stuck in our head, for example, i.e. how the inner movements associated with the perceptual experience of the song become a receded contextual constraint. Of course, this applies to not only experiences of songs, but the entire flow of perceptual experience that we have moved through instinctively since infancy, which has now become the receded memory context of subconscious constraints that mostly define our sense of "me" or "who I am". In this way, we begin to know ourselves as attentional activity that is more than the sum total of its etched constraints, that can resist these constraints and work creatively with the 'incoming' condensation of potential.
"They only can acquire the sacred power of self-intuition, who within themselves can interpret and understand the symbol... those only, who feel in their own spirits the same instinct, which impels the chrysalis of the horned fly to leave room in the involucrum for antennae yet to come."
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Re: On the Given World-Picture (or 'sensuous manifold')

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And I really appreciate how a 'constraint' adds to the degree of freedom we experience. The 'constraints', the more creative engagement opportunities. Experience counts. Of course, it is all about the degree to which a fresh and presently active attentional activity is engaging with the 'overlapping' mesh of receded memory contexts.

At the end of the day, I'm assuming we see how exercising our capacity to stay present to the forming of experience (as opposed to the formed) opens up new 'spaces' in which to carry forward the individuating process that we are.
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