Dissolving Nature and Culture:Indigenous Perspectivism in Political Ecology

[Soul_of_Shu]

It sure seems that Joanna Macy, like Linda Tucker, is also into a prophecy about a paradigm shift, corresponding to the emergence of an integral stage of consciousness on a collective scale, the lion-hearted Shambala warrior stage, upon which a re-imagined vision of global-village, nature><culture citizenship praxis depends ... so I'm curious about what's the essential difference in the prophecies ?

[Lou Gold]

It sure seems that Joanna Macy, like Linda Tucker, is also into a prophecy about a paradigm shift, corresponding to the emergence of an integral stage of consciousness on a collective scale, the lion-hearted Shambala warrior stage, upon which a re-imagined vision of global-village, nature><culture citizenship praxis depends ... so I'm curious about what's the essential difference in the prophecies ?

There is no essential difference in the prophecies. That's not what I'm pointing at. I'm saying that prophecy alone has a missing link of citizenship, which was/is the grounded basis of the excellent work of LM, JM and Cutcha Risling Baldy. Again, I repeat: Consciousness, Civilization and Citizenship is the three-legged rising and grounding of the real.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Understood, but surely this re-imagined nature><culture citizenship praxis must correspond to the prophesied shift into the integral lion-hearted Shambala warrior stage of consciousness, absent which we're merely stuck problem-solving with the outmoded mindset that has created the crisis. In other words, such a new paradigmatic praxis cannot precede the prophesied shift, but is born out of it.

[Lou Gold]

Prophesy or story becomes shift depending on what one does with the story, which is a question of citizenship. This is the difference making the difference.

I realize that to an ontologist the question of "which comes first?" plays out differently for a colonized indigenous person.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Praxis refers to the act of engaging, applying, exercising, realizing, or practicing ideas. The current predominant paradigm has been largely about practising the ideas of materialism, and which is why the impassioned pleas of the likes of Joanna Macy, who at 90 years of age has been calling out for a new nature><culture praxis for a long time, have mostly fallen on deaf stage-specific ears, precisely because such a new paradigmatic praxis cannot precede the shift to the integral stage. Meanwhile, 'They who have ears, let them hear'

[Lou Gold]

Meanwhile, 'They who have ears, let them hear'

And what they are going to do with what they hear will determine whether the integral stage becomes real. The three-legged stool of the Integral Stage does not arrive as magic fairy dust. It is worked and formed into place by citizenship, by participation, and by ________. Sure, JM's prophesy has been around for a while. The perennial wisdom has been around for much longer. And, in context of the Indigenous Perspective, which is the theme of this thread, there is something that has been around even longer.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Certainly one acknowledges that the praxis of indigenous cultures was apropos to the in-the-wild world which their stage-specific consciousness inhabited. And some aspect of that praxis can no doubt be carried forward, as in transcend and include, into the prophesied integral age and stage, from which a new nature><culture praxis will be born apropos to the emergent stage. What exactly it will be we may not yet even be able to imagine.

[Lou Gold]

Certainly one acknowledges that the praxis of indigenous cultures was apropos to the in-the-wild world which their stage-specific consciousness inhabited. And some aspect of that praxis can no doubt be carried forward, as in transcend and include, into the prophesied integral age and stage, from which a new nature><culture praxis will be born apropos to the emergent stage. What exactly it will be we may not yet even be able to imagine.

I posted two talks by indigenous speakers who are not trying to return to in-the-wild world and who are not having difficulties of imaging what might be. The key principles of citizenship are participation, respect and being grounded in a place. Linda Tucker arrived in a place, got terrified by wild lions in a place, met an indigenous medicine woman in a place, had her consciousness altered in a place and went to work forming activism and meditation from a place. Is it not a piece of the colonial philosophical view that imagines that effective consciousness can be separated from locations?

[Soul_of_Shu]

I'm not speaking to some colonial philosophical view, but to a prophesied shift to an integral never-before-seen stage of consciousness, from which a new nature><culture praxis, neither indigenous or colonial ~ destined to become completely anachronistic terms ~ will be born. Whatever work-in-progress praxis you speak of is not truly such a new praxis, but still encumbered by the inherent limitations of the preceding stage. But yes, for now it's what we have to work with, and so one rings the bells that can be rung.

[SanteriSatama]

Is it not a piece of the colonial philosophical view that imagines that effective consciousness can be separated from locations?

Do you mean mathematics?