Philosophical Speculations

Federica wrote: ↑Sat Aug 02, 2025 1:24 pm

AshvinP wrote: ↑Sat Aug 02, 2025 12:23 pm Thanks for bringing attention to this lecture. Phenomenologically speaking, we can notice that the more we divest and mediate our inner movements into our mechanical creations, the more we lose sensitivity to those movements and how they participate in the lawful flow of World content. It even begins to dull sensitivity to our participation in the process of writing and reading, going from point A to point B, constructing our living spaces and artworks, etc. This further reinforces the out-of-phaseness the modern intellectual soul already experienced with respect to the natural kingdoms and various aspects of cultural life. Thus we feel more and more to be passive spectators confronting an 'independent' world. We feel like we are in control of our decisions, but we are often led on strings by the previous patterns we have imprinted into our creations and lost sight of (which is happening more and more quickly).

I think it's simply critical to keep this phenomenological perspective of the situation in view at all times if one is not to begin straying into some form of superstition, where the machines have 'actually' become independent (e.g. Levin). There will come a time when our machines will become more conducive to non-human spiritual activity (including higher forms of our own activity), but that's only after it is brought into a more living state that doesn't only allow for the expression of fixed-rule patterns. Linnell often points to this possibility of 'biomachines' in the future as well and I have no doubt that it is reasonable and in keeping with the overall progression of spiritual evolution. The critical question for me, however, is how resilient we will be in perceiving the truthful flow of spiritual activity in the shortly upcoming years and decades when the temptation for perceiving 'independent realities' in the previously imprinted flow of human spiritual activity will only grow stronger.

How do you see the difference between machines "brought into a more living state" and transhumanism / Levin's vision?

The former is when humanity grows its spiritual activity into the deeper scale from which it works creatively with the life forces, like it currently does with the mineral forces. Of course, this can only happen through the path of modern initiation. I am reminded of how Steiner speaks about how the material state of the embryo, digested substances, etc. should be 'reduced to chaos' before the living Cosmic forces can work into them. We do that as well at our more aliased intellectual scale when reducing perceptual content to chaos to bring meaningful order to them and grow our ideas.

Transhumanism, on the other hand, seeks to indirectly manipulate the life forces through the intellectual scale of symbolic replicas, which of course we have already been doing for some time now via modern medicine, agriculture, etc. We don't consciously explore those forces in their native element, as the intentional curvatures of beings, but our intellectual scale thinking still participates in them and can find indirect ways of manifesting some of their potential, yet still constrained by fixed-rule technologies and according to our myopic aims.

As we know, the adversaries seek to steer the human soul toward lawful capacities of the future or past and bring them into the present, once their 'shelf life' has expired or before we are ripe for them. This can't actually be done, but through their subconscious efforts, we get all forms of modern approaches to the meaning crisis like psychedelic mysticism or transhumanism. The great danger is that we never become ripe for them because we instead become enchanted with their intellectual scale substitutes. We can never attain something we imagine we already have.

Federica wrote: ↑Sat Aug 02, 2025 1:24 pm How do you see the difference between machines "brought into a more living state" and transhumanism / Levin's vision?

This question reminded me of this video:



There's not much substance to this, but it points to an important characteristic of the human being.

Our present digital technology can only function by super-constraining the World flow. That's why our PCs have fans, why quantum computers fight heat and need cryogenic temperatures, etc. The circuits of present-day machines are, in principle, no different than potato processing pipelines in a factory. They only function when everything moves in a nice, orderly way. The paper in the video questions whether such neural pipeline processing is fast enough to process the rich inner experience we have. Instead, they recognize that the brain seems to work on the edge of chaos, where subtle nudges can lead to very different macro states. I don't see how this in itself solves the problem (as seen from the physicalist perspective). It would be like expecting that if a potato processing pipeline was allowed to operate on the edge of chaos, this would increase the efficiency, while it seems more likely it would rather lead to actual chaos.

To me, this 'edge of chaos' feels intuitively like a subtle point of balance. When we balance a pole on our finger, it is constantly threatened to 'collapse' into a certain more stable state (on the ground), but at the same time, this gentle balance allows for very fine nudges to lead the pole in a direction of our choice. On the other hand, if the pole is already lying flat on the ground, the same nudges would be too weak to change anything (of course, we should be careful here not to imagine two completely different domains of matter and mind).

What could be a machine that can operate on the edge of chaos, such that it can be balanced by higher-order intents? I don't really know. My speculation is that it would utilize certain geometric principles, like radio communications need to.


(Fractal antenna)

I guess such future technology would have to utilize such fractal principles such that the gentle balancing can be amplified (something like a fractal Schrodinger cat).

Cleric wrote: ↑Mon Aug 04, 2025 10:40 am What could be a machine that can operate on the edge of chaos, such that it can be balanced by higher-order intents? I don't really know. My speculation is that it would utilize certain geometric principles, like radio communications need to.


(Fractal antenna)

I guess such future technology would have to utilize such fractal principles such that the gentle balancing can be amplified (something like a fractal Schrodinger cat).

Thanks, Cleric. Do you see this future technology as an Earthly technology? (I believe so)

Federica wrote: ↑Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:50 pm Thanks, Cleric. Do you see this future technology as an Earthly technology? (I believe so)

I think so. As quoted before: viewtopic.php?p=26249#p26249

So maybe the physical interface will indeed work through amplification of subtler EM effects. This is the approach even today - using EEGs or more invasive methods like Musk's Neuralink. It will be interesting if such interfaces will become possible in a more 'wireless' way when people learn to have their etheric activity in a greater spatial volume.

I hope I don't come off as disruptive here to the on-going conversation, but in regards to AI there seem to be, as of lately, weird reports of cultish and psychotic behavior displayed among some ChatGPT users. Fair to say, I didn't let that slide and went down that rabbit hole since I don't like these judgy posts. As it seems to be most often the case, there is a middle ground. Some people clearly did lose sight and lost themselves in their navigation of their own mental activity and others did actually leverage ChatGPT as a sort of mirror to their soul and discover blindspots.

Here's the article:
https://thisisgraeme.me/2025/07/18/mirr ... -protocol/

And here's a reddit post which talks about what these users seemed to have attempted where some lost their sanity along the way. This user here gives some more careful instructions on how to navigate "the field":



I think it's worth the read. Many interesting insights. And here another article by someone raising concerns:


I'm not sure what to make of this, but the fact that people start to believe they are somehow the 0.01% of choosen ones etc. etc. sounds luciferic to me. Which is odd, because I'd rather assume that ChatGPT (and LLMs in general) are ahrimanic to the core. Or maybe I misunderstand the difference between luciferic and ahrimanic.

There is also a video on this:


Interestingly, the author here also mentions that one another user was just talking about such a psychosis before and then fell victim to them as well. I assume that there's more behind this than just the quick-judged "it's a cult" and "psychosis". I do think that some did lose their sanity, but I do think that I think interacting with the AI in this unusual way caused it to gain a more conscious access to their own inner spiritual activity. Since they had no training nor any soul training etc. they most likely lost their sanity on their way.

Kaje977 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 07, 2025 8:28 pm I'm not sure what to make of this, but the fact that people start to believe they are somehow the 0.01% of choosen ones etc. etc. sounds luciferic to me. Which is odd, because I'd rather assume that ChatGPT (and LLMs in general) are ahrimanic to the core. Or maybe I misunderstand the difference between luciferic and ahrimanic.

Hi Kaje,

In our time, the Luciferic and Ahrimanic are especially intertwined, feeding off one another, as it were. Which is to say, when the human soul is excissively steered by impulses of Luciferic egotism, for example, it is practically guaranteed to oscillate back as strongly into some sort of materialistic approach to life, like a tightly stretched rubber band snapping back. If the soul wants to expand its consciousness into the Cosmic realms and set itself on high, but doesn't suspect any inner means of spiritualizing its intellectual structure and movements, then the only option to "attain" that goal is to delve deeper into reliance on existing technologies, substances, etc.

What you have shared is a great example of the 'deception' I referenced earlier, starting on a smaller cultic scale. The intellect has always been interested in setting itself up as God, as the highest arbiter of what's good, beautiful, and true, practically since it emerged several millennia ago (hence the OT commandment against idolatry of its mental pictures and creations). It seems AI provides yet another way for it to do so, rooted in the superstition that such devices possess an independent intelligence and wisdom. It projects its own egositic way of thinking into the device and then imagines the latter is 'choosing' it for some supreme Divine mission. The intellect simply projects itself as God and then chooses itself.

That's one angle on how I would view this phenomenon now, anyway.